DiveMaster/LDS conflict

[pir8]

personally I would want you diving in the config that you will be normally diving. Long hose or not cause that is what you need to be used to.

 

[AbyssalPlains]

And just to follow up on this, since a couple other people have commented on it, this was for my AOW class, I went through OW at the same shop using their rental gear.

I really wanted to use my own regs in the AOW class but unfortunately, I had purchased them in long hose config so I had to purchase a new hose and switch everything back to standard octo configuration.

I dearly hope you bought your new hose at a different dive shop. Seems like the scuba market in your area could use a little competition....

 

[Charlie59]

Maybe if you hold your breath and turn blue, then stomp your feet real hard they will change their mind. No, wait, you could grow up and just help them out (or not and just accept your lonely life).

The advise to burn them down was mature too.

Everyone who works with a dive shop knows the drill. I don't know anyone who was kidnaped and made to assist with an ow class.

 

[robway034]

For all the guys who have expressed some kind of a gripe about using the LDS's gear..I offer the following. DM SOME PLACE ELSE! I mean give me a freaking break. So you really expect a shop owner to really let you set the marketing agenda for HIS/HER shop? I don't blame the LDS owner one darn bit for requiring some type of "uniformity" from their staff while engaging in shameless self promotion. The last time I checked that's the American way! Not to mention the fact that the LDS is under constant attack from LP and all the other online gray market types!

The only caveat I'd add is that if the LDS doesn't help facilitate your acquire the equipment they mandate you have. There is a core teaching staff of roughly 4 guys at our shop. I own a dive rite BCD, which isn't sold at my LDS, so I use the rental gear JUST LIKE THE STUDENTS and its the major brand the LDS sells.
Just like when I was in the US Army and got assigned to Ft Bragg NC.. the dumbest thing in the world is (at least to me at the time) was walking around all day in the NC sun wearing a damned piece of dark colored wool on my large bulbous head! But guess what!?!? I volunteered to be a G&*damn paratrooper so guess what how much complaining I did about it....NONE!

I'd like to thank the original poster of this thread to know that I think that he made a very responsible and adult posting. This has been a really provocative subject!

 

[AbyssalPlains]

For all the guys who have expressed some kind of a gripe about using the LDS's gear..I offer the following. DM SOME PLACE ELSE! I mean give me a freaking break. So you really expect a shop owner to really let you set the marketing agenda for HIS/HER shop? I don't blame the LDS owner one darn bit for requiring some type of "uniformity" from their staff while engaging in shameless self promotion. The last time I checked that's the American way! Not to mention the fact that the LDS is under constant attack from LP and all the other online gray market types!

The only caveat I'd add is that if the LDS doesn't help facilitate your acquire the equipment they mandate you have. There is a core teaching staff of roughly 4 guys at our shop. I own a dive rite BCD, which isn't sold at my LDS, so I use the rental gear JUST LIKE THE STUDENTS and its the major brand the LDS sells.
Just like when I was in the US Army and got assigned to Ft Bragg NC.. the dumbest thing in the world is (at least to me at the time) was walking around all day in the NC sun wearing a damned piece of dark colored wool on my large bulbous head! But guess what!?!? I volunteered to be a G&*damn paratrooper so guess what how much complaining I did about it....NONE!

I'd like to thank the original poster of this thread to know that I think that he made a very responsible and adult posting. This has been a really provocative subject!

Given that you are such a --quote-- "darn good paratrooper" , who--quote-- "guess what how much complaining I did about it....NONE!" -- your post sure sounds like you felt the urge to do some catching up in the complaint department after all this time...

You are totally right, btw, about it making sense to advertise the LDS "uniform." Of course. And I guess you're right about this being the "the American way", as you put it, although -believe it or not- I've seen employees and the like dressed in "uniforms" in other parts of the world, too. The thing that strikes me is that when you work as a burger flipper at McDonalds, guess what? The franchiser a) pays you for the work you do, and b) pays for the uniform you're wearing at work, too, unlike the typical LDS. (Yes, I'm sure there are exceptions.)

 

[robway034]

Just sent you a PM Pteranodon

And for the record....for all to see. I don't now nor did I EVER take my service lightly...without any reservation I proudly state my unequivocal love of this country and have nothing but pride for my service. How you managed to misquote me when its an automated process is beyond me but in the future please refrain from making negative commentary about my service to MY country, I don't appreciate it.

 

[jviehe]

I want to help out my instructor and the LDS this weekend with OW/AOW students, but my instructor has insisted I wear my jacket style BC with a 'normal' hose configuration.

He says he wants the students to see me in products they would be selling them. I own a Halcyon BP/Wing, which my LDS does not sell and I have a long/short hose configuration. They sell Dive Rite products, not Halcyon.

I have a REALLY BIG PROBLEM with this. From the dive shops perspective, I understand their point. Students observe DM's, AI's, and Instructors and it makes sense to wear stuff they sell. But more importantly, MY perspective is I love my new setup, want to dive it more, really don't want to touch my jacket BC because that does no good with me improving my new setup. I feel more comfortable in the wing, blah blah blah.

I can't argue their point, so I am just not going to help out. Part of being a DM is promoting the practices of your instructor, reinforcing them for the students, setting a good example, and I guess sales. I guess I would not make a very good DM for my LDS, because I will refuse to let anyone tell me what I should dive with for the sake of the store. It really is a shame because I think how I look and manuever in the water sets a good example for the students.

Ohh well, any comments from the gallery?

Jason

I think the issue has been pretty well covered. If you agree to work for a shop class, then you do as the shop asks. If you dont want to do what they want, then you dont work for them. I dont see anything wrong with either solution. Youre each looking out for your own best interests.

 

[redacted]

Not to mention the fact that the LDS is under constant attack from LP and all the other online gray market types!

Predators "attack" their prey - like cyotes eat mice. Competitors compete - like Scubapro and Zeagle. Does your LDS see itself as a prey or as a competitor? It is a choice they have to make and manage their business accordingly.

Besides Leisurepro, what other scuba retailers do you include in "online gray market types". All the others I know of are "authorized dealers" who have transitioned their business into the modern market place.

Yes, it is really stupid headgear.

 

[Santa]

I think there is an element of positions that should be at least considered.

I'm an educator by trade. Obviously I don't like to have neither my methods nor teaching aids dictated to me (Questioned yes. Dictated no).

Education, ideally, is about empowering and setting the student free. This will always conflict with any attempt to have "good business" as an equal prority. One will outweigh the other when push comes to shove. And the students will sense it eventually.

However.

If the school has no money I have no place to teach, I'd have to get the materials and students myself and organise everything in a way that would allow me to at least survive my own idealism whilst spreading the good word. Or I could do it as a beggar monk and really test the depth of my conviction.

So there are compromises that must sometimes be made because it allows me to continue to influence things in a direction I believe in. Alternative is starting out on my own. It could be done.

Same with the diveshops. As an instructor I don't feel like a sales person. But I am hired by an LDS and they must do business to exist. If I have the option of working with people I respect good. If not it's get my own student gear or retire as an instructor.

So I'm not advocating forcing gear on DM's (who usually work hard out of sheer personal interest for a few dives and percentages). Only that DMs as all other educators must make up their mind about the values of "the shop". Is the shop in it mainly for the dough or are they actually trying to build something worthwhile.

If not I'd quit.

Revolution is easy. Replacing the system with something better is more difficult. Do you have a plan?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Holy thread resurrection, Batman!