DiveMaster/LDS conflict

[Genesis]

Once he gets his DM Cert if he wants to continue to help with class he must purchase his own.

Let me see if I get this right.

You want me to be a billboard for your company, and provide promotion for the products you sell. That's reasonable.

You want me to do that for free. Well, that's not too horrible I guess, especially if I like doing it (diving) anyway.

You want me to pay to be your billboard?

You're nuts.

This is why I'll never do my DM or Instructor ratings - there's no reason to. The way I see it, if you want me to work for you and advertise your product, you can provide me with the gear you want me to advertise - at no cost to me - to use in that endeavor.

I'll leave the gear at the shop (that is, its yours and not mine), but I expect you to provide it, to hold title to it, and if there's a problem with it during my use in my professional capacity, I also expect you to fix or replace it.

I don't expect you to give me gear to use for MY OWN recreational diving; that's my problem. But I do expect that while I'm on your clock, acting as a walking (or swimming) billboard for your company, that you will provide the materials you wish me to advertise.

Anything less is purely outrageous.

Yes, I know the "you have to buy a kit from us that is of the gear we sell and represent" game is common. Its still outright thievery, and anyone who agrees IMHO needs to have their head examined, and I'm not talking about their hood side either.

 

[O-ring]

...but I gotta side with the G-man here. I can't imagine anyone with more than 2 neurons still firing that would agree to that.

 

[jbd]

and I prefer my students to see different gear styles and configurations. I prefer it this way because in the real world of diving they are going to see different set ups.

 

[nlbford]

My thought is that it is a good move on your part to simply not help anymore.

I think the notion that you should wear equipment sold by the affilaited shop is antithetical to what should be the concern. Rather than worrying that your equipment deccisions will influence the purchasing decisions of his students, he should be concerned about influencing students to pay attention to the early and important advice for students to select equipment they feel comfortable with and get used to using it so it becomes very familar to them. While I am sure he didn't let his students know about his request, by him asking you to change your equipment I think he indicated that his priorities towards his instruction may be a bit backward and makes me wonder what other things he HAS said to hsi students that reflect that mix up of priorities.

 

[OneBrightGator]

I think there are two seperate issues here: one of configuration and one of manufacturer.

The configuration issue is ridiculous, they are going to see different configs in the "real world" might as well see it in the class now and be introduced to it. The shop can't have a problem with that because if they get turned onto diving a long hose chances are they'll remember the first one they saw and hopefully come back to your shop to make the switch (given your shop is open to that kind of business).

The second is not so bad, you are a representative of the shop when you DM, whether you get paid or not, it's not unreasonable to expect you to use equipment that they can sell to their customers, you dive a BP/wings, last time I checked Dive Rite sells those, IMO you should be good to go (I don't see the brand difference as that big of a deal, more the style in this case) however, they should provide you rental equipment or give you significant discounts (if you're an active, helpful DM that's not going to run off without earning those discounts). The shop is the reason you have a class to DM for, what they say goes, whether you like it or not (and whether it makes sense or not).

Ben

 

[jepuskar]

Thanks everyone for the comments.

I am a Dive Master Candidate (just have 2 more things left, neither of which has to do with students), I pay $20 to get into the quarry, I don't work for the shop, I pay for my airfills, walk up hill both ways with no shoes on and with a knife in my big toe.

I really like working with the students, but I just can't conform to what my LDS wants. There is just no way. I am very big on doing what is in my best interest and diving a rig I don't dive anymore is fruitless for me and no FUN.

I'm about to call my instructor and let him know I am not gonna help out this weekend. I might even take a weekend off from diving, my trip is coming up and my girl and I have been diving the heck out of the quarry lately.

Anyone doing any diving this weekend?

 

[ZoCrowes255]

O-ring once bubbled...
In order to DM for your store, which is an unpaid position, you are going to require some guy to buy new gear that is consistent with the store's inventory even though the guy is already a solid diver and has his own kit?

The only reason we train Divemaster's is because they later go on to become instructors for our store. If they just want a Divemaster certification so they can card collect they can go somewhere else.

We are very selective about who we want to help with our classes and teach for us. If someone wants to help with classes they usually go to the pool or open water with them first and one of the staff evaluates them.

A person does not start out as a Divemaster with us. They start out getting a NAUI Training Assistant (non-leadership speciality.) We do this to weed out those who really want to be Leadership from those who just want to help with class every so often. They are usually TA's for about 6 months all the way up to a year. I was a TA for two years because of my age. After TA, if they don't want to go on to DM they only owe us for the TA card and they can help with classes anytime they like. If they decide they want to do Divemaster then we will run a DM course on an individual basis. By this time they are expected to be using gear that we carry (we dont have to stock it just carry the line) which they recieve at a siginificant discount. Also teaching through the store we cover most of their insurance. After they have been a DM for a little while and if we have at least two DMs who want to become Instructors we will run an ITC.

What is wrong with requiring someone to wear gear you sell in your classes? If you owned a dive shop it would be unwise not too. Nobody is forcing them to help. It's because they want to and if they want to they need to play by shop rules. If they don't want to do that thenthey should look for an independant instructor or take a two week crash course in Fla.

Now it's not like we are coming down on them saying "YOU CANNOT USE BRAND X!" we just tell them once when they come in to inquire about becoming a divemaster and we offer the use of our equipment. We like having people help. It's cool to see how they transform as divers and how they learn how to teach people. IMHO apprenticeship is always the way to go.

The current Divemaster candidate dives with me for pleasure a lot too and I don't really care what he uses then as long as it's safe.

 

[sealkie]

If you are compensating your DMs / and or providing gear then you can insist they wear the gear you want.

If you have DMs that are paying for a course AND getting nothing from the store ( insurance / discount etc ) then it is unfair to expect them to use specific gear.

 

[ppilot]

ZoCrowes255 once bubbled...

The only reason we train Divemaster's is because they later go on to become instructors for our store. If they just want a Divemaster certification so they can card collect they can go somewhere else.

What is your store called? I'd like to make sure to avoid it if I'm ever in the area.

No offense, but what you said (above) is patronizing, self-serving, shortsighted, and insulting.

 

[CD_in_Chitown]

ZoCrowes255 once bubbled...

A person does not start out as a Divemaster with us. They start out getting a NAUI Training Assistant (non-leadership speciality.) We do this to weed out those who really want to be Leadership from those who just want to help with class every so often.

This goes back to the useful vs. money-grub style LDS man. The NAUI TA is good for younger divers who want to help out, or the mature divers who never want to be leaders with all the costs & liabilities involved, but it's a frivolous specialty imho.

I was always interested in the DM course but never pursued it until I found a LDS that I was 100% comfortable with, I guarantee you any shop that suggested I spend $150 or more upfront for a silly cert like TA would never see my face again.