DiveMaster/LDS conflict

[Waterlover]

Selling diving equipment and teaching diving are a conflict of interest for the student. Just because the shop sells the gear doesn't mean it's the best equipment for the student....Jep finish those 2 things and walk away ........no you better run

 

[jbichsel]

with classes and the LDS requests that you wear their type/brand of equipment, it seems to me that is their right. You don't have to continue working with/for them, but they do have the right to set their standards.

That said however, if you do not own their style/brand, they should be willing to outfit you in their prefered style/brand. You should not be made to buy additional equipment. It should be available to you for use during classes. If they want you in their gear, let them put you in a rig that will make them AND you comfortable, safe and happy.

I think that it is rather short sighted of the LDS not to allow you to wear whatever gear you own/prefer as students should be exposed to "real world" scenarios. There needs to be exposure to what they are really going to see once the leave the LDS' nest.

If they are a Dive Rite dealer, why not let you bring your BP/wing? So what if it's not the same brand. Let them make a case for Dive Rite to anyone who shows an interest.

 

[Atticus]

This is a very interesting question. I've gone through something similar myself and it irked me to no end.

As a DM student you are paying to take a class. If they offer to teach the class, and take your money, they should either state up front that there are certain gear requirements, or they should let you dive the gear you already own. Since you will be seen as a rep for their store during your internships, it would not be unreasonable for them to require you to use their gear, *so long as they state that upfront when you sign up for your dm class*.

Once you've finished DM, you are volunteering to work with the store to both of your mutual benefit. They don't necessarily owe you a thing, nor vice versa. If either of you wants to make stipulations, you should feel free to do so, but the other should feel free to terminate the relationship. (ie: LDS tells you to use SP gear, you tell them no thanks and walk away).

My case was particularly pertubing in that the LDS specified that they didn't want me to be seen wearing gear they don't sell even on my own time, nor to be seen walking into the store that sells said gear (the Halcyon dealer / competitor). I explained that I would do what I want on my own time, and we ended the discussion on friendly, if guarded footing. Since then I've reduced the number of classes I assist that store with and begun spending more time at the other (friendlier) store.

Were I to try to make my living selling dive gear I would keep a set of rental gear that I reserved for instructor/dm use. I'd ask that as a courtesy to me my staff only wear products that I carry when working with my students, and I'd welcome them to use the rental set as needed. I would also offer substantial discounts to the staff to help them acquire the gear that I sell. Whether paid or not, the staff are acting as part of the business and should act in the best interest of the business.

 

[Atticus]

You guys aren't going to start teasing me like you do SeaJay for the long posts, are you? ut:

 

[Genesis]

Were I to try to make my living selling dive gear I would keep a set of rental gear that I reserved for instructor/dm use. I'd ask that as a courtesy to me my staff only wear products that I carry when working with my students, and I'd welcome them to use the rental set as needed. I would also offer substantial discounts to the staff to help them acquire the gear that I sell. Whether paid or not, the staff are acting as part of the business and should act in the best interest of the business.

I have no problem with that stance at all - provided the shop is handing over the gear to use while teaching, and does not attempt to reach into your private life (and private diving) beyond their class environment.

HOWEVER, as soon as they try to either force you to buy gear from them (or gear they rep) in order to teach for them or DM for them, where you fork out the money, that's over the line.

I don't expect to OWN the gear they give me to use, but I do expect it to be in excellent condition - equivalent to the condition I would and do keep my own gear in - and I expect them to provide it for my use during the time I am working for them if they ask (or insist!) that I use "their stuff."

I don't expect them to buy me a set of gear for my personal use. If they want to extend to me the ability to buy personal gear at cost, I might take them up on it or I might not. If its at any significant profit, however, I'll likely pass - I'm already making them money by working for them (at least I better be, otherwise why would they have me there?)

 

[Atticus]

Hmm.. Interesting lines being drawn..

It seems to me that there is a commercial advantage to the dive shop in having their employees wear gear they carry. This is a benefit for the employer.

If the "contract" between the employer and employee requires that the employee buy gear they carry, then so be it. They may not get many employees, or the best employees, but as long as it's spelled out, with no tricks, looking into their private life, etc. then that's ok with my sense of ethics - the employee can walk if they don't like the deal. The shop has no responsibility to employ someone that doesn't represent what they perceive to be in their best interest.

On the other hand, ever ask the guy at the Chevy dealer what kind of car he drives? The last one told me he drives a Toyota. I applauded him.

-Atticus

 

[Genesis]

they disclose all of this before they take your money for the DM class, that's fine...

The problem of course is that they typically don't - you find out after the fact.

 

[jepuskar]

I have found that my LDS, particularly instructor seems to be a bit threatened by my change in gear. Comments like, why do you need that, or are you going into cave diving, or just common rolling of the eyes....I have seen it all in the last month or so.


They know I have gone to the Internet for some stuff, especially my Halcyon gear. What is funny is that their only Tec instructor fully agrees with my Halcyon purchases, he was drooling over it when he first saw it, but he has to dive with Dive Rite stuff.

Hey, whatever man.....two more things to do for my DM and I'll see where it takes me.

 

[CD_in_Chitown]

Atticus once bubbled...

On the other hand, ever ask the guy at the Chevy dealer what kind of car he drives? B]

A few years ago I had a mistubishi, every employee at that dealership drove a mitsubishi. They all had free use of the cars, and were provided gas cards.

I'm in agreement with you on the contract, but it seems to me the LDS would do better to put you in the gear they want the students to see while your in front of the student, not only to attract the best employees but to standardize somewhat for the students sake. When I'm out with two students and (God forbid) something happens I don't want them to drown me because they can't figure out how to get me out of a harness.

 

[rab]

I'm just a new OW diver, but my instructor was quite candid about his equipment. He pointed out that he used a back-inflation BC rather than jacket. I know that he mentioned some equipment that he wouldn't even buy with his deep store discount. Even on the cert. dives, he was wearing at least one brand name that the shop didn't carry.

I tend to agree with the position that the shop should provide the equipment (in pool and open water) if they really want to promote their own lines, BUT wouldn't think it reasonable to reject wearing your own equipment just because they couldn't sell it when a student asked.

-Rob