DiveMaster/LDS conflict

[GQMedic]

Jason,

Ahh, now I understand better your issues with the shop and instructor. No worries. you're almost done. After which, you can shake his hand and make it a decent farewell. Just two things left! keep remembering that! It makes it alot easier. What two things are left? *nosey look*

jepuskar once bubbled...
I have found that my LDS, particularly instructor seems to be a bit threatened by my change in gear. Comments like, why do you need that, or are you going into cave diving, or just common rolling of the eyes....I have seen it all in the last month or so.


They know I have gone to the Internet for some stuff, especially my Halcyon gear. What is funny is that their only Tec instructor fully agrees with my Halcyon purchases, he was drooling over it when he first saw it, but he has to dive with Dive Rite stuff.

Hey, whatever man.....two more things to do for my DM and I'll see where it takes me.

 

[GQMedic]

Hey now!

I like Seajay, his posts while LOOONNNNNGGG, are pretty cool and he's a crack up.

Atticus once bubbled...
You guys aren't going to start teasing me like you do SeaJay for the long posts, are you? ut:

 

[norcaldiver]

I can see both sides to this. Yeah, it would be great to have different setups so students can see new things and get a braod general knowledge of rigs. But I kind of come from the old theory that "if we're all wrong, we're allright". The way I look at it is we all wear the same type of equipment, this adds to mental comfort level if nothing else. The students are there to learn the basics, they don't need to be thinking about anything else but mask removal, bouyancy, how many ata's is 99 feet, etc. If they are asking about a long hose, or and wing, they aren't thinking about the modules.
That doesn't mean that it shouldn't be shown to the students. It should be shown and talked about in the equipement over view along with drysuits, different thinkness of wetsuits, mask types, guages, computers, etc.
If everyone wears a wing, then great, then the jacket can be covered in the equipement overview part of the class and then move on to the important stuff.
I guess what I'm saying is let's worry about getting the student to preform their tasks, not who has the cooler looking rig.

 

[Scuba_Vixen]

or so I thought, untill DM came along. If you don't really love to dive and want to share your pasion, it's not the course to take. It has to be a labor of love, and since there are a lot of divers willing to do it, (be indentured servants), the shops are going to take advantage of that. The usual problem is that not many wanting to become DM's have any idea what questions to ask before they start, so all the issues like Jep's come out way down the road and then there's usually bad feelings stirred up. The truth is: when it's your shop, you can make all the rules, when you're an instructor, you can make some of the rules, when you're a full experienced DM, you have to follow most of the rules, when you're still an intern DM, you follow All the rules. It's not really any different than being an electrician or a millwright, You're working your way up in your craft and it sux at the bottom.

But one last point, If you agree with the DIR idea that everyone should have a standard for configuration because it's familiar and therefore safer, then you have agree that the configuration the shop expects students and instructors (and you as a DM) to maintain is safer, since everyone will be alike within that group.

Anyway, it's something to ponder...

Darlene

 

[japan-diver]

I work for a shop that requires all paid staff to dive gear that we sell. DM candidates and others "helping out" are usually working for free and can dive whatever they have but are encouraged to dive gear we carry or use rental gear .

I don't have a problem with a shop requiring certain kinds of gear thats part of a lot of jobs. But jobs is the key you are getting paid and therefore have to follow the rules. Don't like the rules get a different job. Volunteers should be allowed to dive whatever they got or be provided with gear for free to use.

 

[Rick Inman]

I dived with a DM in Mexico this year who explained how his LDS (Bay area) handled this issue in a way that pleased him a LOT. All DMs after they are trained are able to work in the shop in exchange for equipment instead of pay - equipment that the store sells and that the DM has to use during future classes. He told me he has enough stuff to outfit 5 divers.
And he seemed very pleased.

On another track, I am SSI certified, but just started a group from my church to take the PADI OW course. I'll take it with them (I get the class almost free anyway 'cause I'm bringing 10 new divers to the shop). The LDS owner never mentioned what gear I should use. Some of my kit is from the SSI competition up the street, some from on line, some from a discount outlet and some from his shop - and he knows this. I'll use his stuff for the pool work and mine for the OW dives. And I won't be afraid to tell my new-diver-friends about the other equipment purchase options that are out there. Hope this doesn't tweak the LDS owner...

 

[roakey]

A DM certification is just that -- a certification. The diver should pay for it, receive training and receive the card if s/he deserves it.

This is *completely* separate from being employed AS a DM, at the dive facility that offered the training or otherwise. In fact as a DM I should be able to go to any dive shop, and if they need DMs, should be able to work for that dive shop.

Given this outloook, I'm completely confused by the following two statements:

ZoCrowes255 once bubbled...
I understand (I was not around when it was instituted) we do the Training Assistant because we had a few people go through the Divemaster course and at the end of it all they decided that they did not want to teach

What did you do, GIVE AWAY the training? If you didn't, why is it any skin off of your nose if the person doesn't want to go on to be an instructor?

Genesis once bubbled...
You think that people should come into your store, sign up for a class, pay you for that class, the end result of which is that (after paying for the class) they are then expected to provide you with free labor, AND buy gear you want them to shill for you at their expense?

Why should you EXPECT employment from merely taking a DM class? Heck, I wouldn't EXPECT employment if I became an instructor!

Roak

 

[jepuskar]

I am glad I brought this up, great discussions up in here, up in here.

GQMedic, I only have my swim and emergency assistance plan left. I do like my instructor and I do somewhat agree with the shops perspective on this, however, my instructor and a couple of their instructors all dive bungeed wings from Dive Rite. Like some others have stated, if I dive a wing from Halcyon I'm sure they could sell the Dive Rite product if a student showed interest.

Our relationship has been deteriorating this summer because I see what others on this board have been complaining about...the push em in, push em out, assembly line of attitude.

My gf got certified about a month ago, and even before she was certified her instructor was pushing advanced, even to this day whenever we see her instructor..ADVANCED, when are we gonna do ADVANCED. Well, I have taken my gf through Advanced already, she is just not gonna get a little card. She has about 35 dives which have improved her confidence more than any class would have, and I feel very confident in her understanding of what needs to be done.

Her instructor knows I have been diving with her and I am pretty sure they feel she hasn't taken the class because of me, which is true. They were surprised when she bought her equipment at the store; they thought I was going to have her go online for everything.

Anyway, sorry for rambling..gotta a little side tracked. I just woke up. ut:

 

[ZoCrowes255]

roakey once bubbled...

What did you do, GIVE AWAY the training? If you didn't, why is it any skin off of your nose if the person doesn't want to go on to be an instructor?

Roak

No, but they recieved the training at cost. They most likely recieved their gear below cost, at cost or damn near it. The Instructor who trained them does not recieve any compensation for it (they don't expect it either because they same thing was done for them.) Our shop does not make a profit from training DMs and Instructors. That is why we have them go through TA first (at cost as well.) It's so they can see if they would like to move on to Divemaster and get a taste for what's it's like before they have to drop a big chunk of change. When they finally decide to go on to Divemaster it means they have made a commitment to our store. If they decide they want to just stay Divemaster they need to let us know and that will is fine.

The owners try their best to be fair with everyone who comes in the store. We don't want anyone to feel that they have recieved inadequate training or bad service so after 25 years of being in business they have most of the process refined. The owner in charge of training here has been awarded with an Outstanding Contribution to Diving from NAUI almost every year in the past decade so I think we are doing all right.

 

[ZoCrowes255]

jepuskar once bubbled...
.

Our relationship has been deteriorating this summer because I see what others on this board have been complaining about...the push em in, push em out, assembly line of attitude.

Anyway, sorry for rambling..gotta a little side tracked. I just woke up. ut:

Could you explain this to me? Are they allowing students who should not be going to openwater go to openwater? I'm not trying to be confrontational I'm just curious.