Divers vs. Spearfishing sites

[TMHeimer]

As a rec (not wreck) diver as well as a spearfisherman (usually freedive only) I can say please don't restrict access/use of any more water for spearfishing. I know there are multiple areas around the country that are protected areas (in CA called MLPA's) where there is no take allowed. This affects not only recreational (?) spearfishers but also commercial fishers, and commerce that your average hook and line angler brings to an area.

As far as the spearo's feeding fish, none of the ones I know in CA will leave anything more than gills and guts in the water. And that usually is after they are done for the day heading home, at the surface. IMO worldwide, we tend to be highly selective of what we shoot and anything we shoot we want to keep. Guys go to great lengths to prevent any signs of a distressed fish being telegraphed through the water and in high-risk areas, they get the fish out of the water asap.

In sum- no I don't think there should be any dive sites that are non-spearing unless there is a more pertinent reason (fishing regs etc). The likelyhood of a SCUBA diver being shot by accident is really pretty low IMO and should be even lower if the shooter is on SCUBA as well. If you're that worried about it, please go dive in already protected areas.

Dive safe and happy diving.

Yeah, I agree (I'm not worried enough about getting shot that I need dive in marine parks). There are plenty of protected "no take" areas IMO, but MO is in the tiny minority.

 

[Nemrod]

Well, see, if the fish can swim to the non spearfishing area from the spearfishing area, will he then forget the supposed, anecdotal association? This is a snipe hunt.

N

 

[h2ogypsy]

First I have no dog(or fish) in this hunt. I dive but don't spearfish. That said, since you asked for opinions, perhaps your observation needs to be expanded to also include observing the difference in the increase of total numbers of divers now as opposed when you started. As an animal behaviorist you are no doubt aware of the fact that familiarity and repetition is a major component of relaxing caution and desensitizing.
And that all human wild animal contact will start to cause a change in behavior. On the other hand if the spearfishing activity is in fact having the effect of predator species getting fed, then yes indeed it would definitely be causal in contributing the aggregate change in at least in the proximity behavior. Weather that change in behavior will actually equate to a heightened level of aggression is speculation until observationally proven. Particularly if the species is not already known to be overtly aggressive.

For example on this shark dive in Roatan in Feb. The Reef sharks come right in close among the divers (because they know that at end of the dive, they will be fed and it will be from a bucket with the lid poped off and tossed well away from any divers) Even with 15 or so sharks and 10 divers, I observed no (even remotely) aggressive behavior towards the divers .
Including this beautiful 10 ft. female that stopped momentarily 3 ft. in front of me and looked straight at me. Did she want me to get the hook out of jaw ? It's possible but pure speculation. I do hope it falls out quickly.

Great pics btw. And great points. Thanks for your input. Good point about the shark-feeding areas n such. I have never been in a non-captive shark-feeding environment (although I was bitten twice in a captive feeding environment; hence why I push operant conditioning vs. hand-feeding the larger predators).
Happy and safe diving to you!

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Great pics btw. And great points. Thanks for your input. Good point about the shark-feeding areas n such. I have never been in a non-captive shark-feeding environment (although I was bitten twice in a captive feeding environment; hence why I push operant conditioning vs. hand-feeding the larger predators).
Happy and safe diving to you!

So you've been bitten twice by sharks and now you feel that they are more agressive lately at night in locations where spearfishing has occured? Is spearfishing at night occuring when you are diving with sharks? How many scary encounters have you had (other than being bitten in an aquarium) . I am trying to understand how you generated these observations.

 

[Superlyte27]

Great pics btw. And great points. Thanks for your input. Good point about the shark-feeding areas n such. I have never been in a non-captive shark-feeding environment (although I was bitten twice in a captive feeding environment; hence why I push operant conditioning vs. hand-feeding the larger predators).
Happy and safe diving to you!

Yeah, I especially like where the diver is standing vertical on the reef.

---------- Post added March 12th, 2013 at 09:14 AM ----------

This is the first I've heard of sharks' behavior changed due to spearfishing. Possibly--I have no idea. I have been on boats that also have spearos but if I had a choice I'd prefer none because I might get accidently speared. For that danger, one can always just ask if any are coming, or for that matter if the area has been spearfished a lot. As pointed out, I agree-- don't think there is any real way to divide up the ocean that way. I go on whichever boat goes out the one time or so all winter on the panhandle. Don't give it any thought, and I don't like sharks.

I've been giving this thread some more thought since I read this post.

When I go spearfishing, I take my own boat. I motor out 25-50 miles out of Daytona and shoot until my heart is content, or my tank is finished and I head up. I jump in the water solo, shoot solo, and surface solo. My buddy then takes his turn while I'm in the boat. If we invite people along (which is rare), I dive solo, then my buddy dives solo, then the people we invite buddy up and shoot. I don't trust ANYONE with a speargun. Would you want to be in the woods with people shooting rifles willy nilly in any direction? A speargun is just as dangerous, albeit at a reduced range. But it's amazing how many times someone has told me the story of how they were pursuing a grouper over a reef and just about to shoot at it when their buddy was seeing the same grouper from the other side of the reef and was also about to shoot for it. These two goobers were aiming right at each other, with only a 40lb grouper separating them.

So, honestly, if I had to be on a boat with other divers who were shooting pictures, spear guns or just site seeing, I would elect not to dive. In my opinion, for me, there would need to be some separation of activities.

So, to answer the OP's question: I really don't care about any behavioral issue. If something gets too aggressive, I'll do in the water what I do on land: Shoot the aggressive party in the face. But, I don't want to share the water with anyone while spearfishing.

 

[KevWind]

Yeah, I especially like where the diver is standing vertical on the reef.

If your going to attempt issuing a sarcastic quip, perhaps some accuracy would be in order. (for instance the kind necessary to not be "firing willy nilly") look closer the diver is in fact vertical close to the bottom but NOT actually standing on the bottom and in fact it is a land formed shelf and not actually a reef, most of what you see is rocks and sand. We can only hope your spearfishing skills are more accurate and factual than your observation skills

---------- Post added March 12th, 2013 at 09:14 AM ----------

 

[Steve_C]

Off the NC coast we have either wrecks or ledges. On most sites there is both spear fishing or diving. The exception is on a few of the inshore wrecks. For example, the Hyde in 80 ft of water with the deck at 60 is an extremely popular rec dive site and is often a first (or second) ocean dive for many new OW students. It also has a resident population of adult sand tigers and occasionally sand bars. I have counted up to 15 sharks around me at one time some only 6 ft away. Many of the dive boats do not allow spearing from their boats on the Hyde. They do not want to encourage divers being viewed as a food source.

 

[fnfalman]

For people that worry about aquatic predators, get a Glock 17 with the marine spring cup modification and a 33-rounds magazine.

 

[Allison Finch]

If your going to attempt issuing a sarcastic quip, perhaps some accuracy would be in order. (for instance the kind necessary to not be "firing willy nilly") look closer the diver is in fact vertical close to the bottom but NOT actually standing on the bottom and in fact it is a land formed shelf and not actually a reef, most of what you see is rocks and sand. We can only hope your spearfishing skills are more accurate and factual than your observation skills

---------- Post added March 12th, 2013 at 09:14 AM ----------

Well, your enhanced photo only proves the poor buoyancy/position and the fact that kicking the structures is a sure bet. There is plenty of evidence, in the big photo, of life growing on the rock structures. There is no way that diver is thinking "that one rock doesn't look like it has a soft coral growing on it so I can kick it all I want to".


I have no problems when a decision that a certain site has such great appeal for divers seeing a great population of marine life that is should be protected from human predation.

By NW: I'm generally not in favor of too much restriction on hunting, unless it's to protect the viability of the species.

NW, I am surprised at your post when you just went through such a huge fight to protect just such a place. As long as there are plenty of places to spear, what's the problem with a few places having an understood, of not legal, protection? I am a former spearo who would spear again, if I had the opportunity. I can't understand the attitude that I have the right to spear anywhere I want to.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

NW, I am surprised at your post when you just went through such a huge fight to protect just such a place. As long as there are plenty of places to spear, what's the problem with a few places having an understood, of not legal, protection? I am a former spearo who would spear again, if I had the opportunity. I can't understand the attitude that I have the right to spear anywhere I want to.

I think we're in agreement. My position has been consistent, particularly with the example you've cited. In this case, I'm in favor of protecting sites where the majority (nearly 100%) of users go there to view and photograph a limited resource. I am not ... and have never been ... in favor of a general ban on spearfishing in the general area. The particular species in the case you site is not a fish ... once it dens it doesn't move around very much. Once it spawns, it doesn't move around at all ... living in that den for up to eight months until the eggs hatch. Pulling it out of that den isn't hunting.

I do not have ... and never have had ... an issue with spearfishing or harvesting marine creatures for consumption. They're tasty, and I enjoy them regularly.

At this point in time, there is a committee looking into several options for protecting this particular species. I hope that whatever recommendations they make considers the rights of all user groups, and makes responsible decisions that allows all to share resources in a sustainable manner. The law, as it exists today, is potentially devastating to both the species and the vast majority (greater than 95%) of users of the dive sites. One hunter could potentially clean out a dive site in less than a week ... and it could take years for it to recover.

Shooting fish on a North Carolina wreck doesn't have those issues ... and therefore demands different considerations. As I said in a previous post, I have no intention of getting involved in a spearo vs non-spearo controversy. I only want to see resources managed in a way that best accommodates the most people, without being unduly unfair to the minority. Having what amounts to "marine protected areas" at popular dive sites does that as long as it allows hunting outside of the site. That is the solution I've advocated in the case of our octopus.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)