Divers vs. Spearfishing sites

[KevWind]

I'm going to insist that if his buoyancy and trim is that poor, that his is encountering the bottom over and over again. And just because it's rocks and sand doesn't mean it's not impacting micro organisms.

OK This is last thing I'M going to say on this distraction.

Yes IF his buoyancy were habitually "that poor" then what you say would be correct.

However IF you Read Post #22, you will see that the truth is both you and Allison are making premature and or mistaken assumptions, based on photo of a single moment in time which, in this case a single occurrence (captured in a photo) does not a pattern make..... AND is NOT indicative of a pattern of behavior............ period.
No one is questioning the fact that a pattern of poor buoyancy control is problematic and potentially harmful to marine environment. BUT that is in fact not the case in this circumstance,(in the photo in my original post) trust me I was there. And more importantly it is irrelevant to the OP's actual discussion.

Perhaps you agree that jumping to conclusions based on a sing photo may be in error ? For example below, or is this guys " buoyancy and trim is that poor, that his is encountering the bottom over and over again."

OK, everyone talking about the buoyancy, please create a new thread.

I could not agree more
So, IF I am not mistaken the original discussion or question was as to weather or not spearfishing might result in (Predators) becoming more dangerous "My concerns are that now the predators are associating divers with a food source; hence the closer, more enquisitive contact. Will this lead to a dangerous situation???"

It is a perfectly legitimate question, and not with out at least some limited land based precedent. Specifically in the case of Yellowstone Park Grizzlys. Where because of Elk hunting activity on the national forest just outside the park boundary. The Grizzly's did in fact become habituated to responding to gun shots, by going to the area of the sound and taking possession of elk carcasses. Sometimes while the hunters were there trying to field dress the meat.

Of course Grizzlies are know to be potentially agressive to humans in close proximity and become very aggressive towards humans in situations involving food. So in this particular case a predator did in fact learn to associate the sound of a hunting activity as a potential food source, and the situation did become more dangerous as a result.

Now weather that would in fact be the case with spearfishing (where the predator may not typically be aggressive towards humans) remains to be seen. But I think it's a bit premature to summarily dismiss the possibility.

 

[Superlyte27]

Actually, if you look closely at the photo you posted with the grouper, you'll see the tip of his fin just barely visible in the picture on the right, just below the tank, just at the point where the grouper ends and the diver begins. Look for it closely. It's a good 3' off of the reef.

 

[NAM001]

If the obsevaton is correct then:

a. sharks relate to humans as chum for real food to appear
b. spear fishers have picked up something on thier person to attract them. (blood on gear from kill bag)
c. dive spots are becoming more inhabited by shark food
d. someone chummed once and they are returning to successful feeding areas

Ocean currents and other biometrics occure in many cycle leignths,,, perhaps this is a 100 year cycle and in 5 years they will be gone.

 

[handben]

Now weather that would in fact be the case with spearfishing (where the predator may not typically be aggressive towards humans) remains to be seen. But I think it's a bit premature to summarily dismiss the possibility.

Normally I do not spearfish, or at least I haven't since the mid-1980s. But last week I was in the Bahamas and did have the opportunity to spear lionfish. As there are not many natural predators yet for this species and it appears that they are very damaging to the environment, I believe that divers are doing a good deed by killing as many of these as possible. With that in mind we tried to do our part. On one dive side that has been used for shark feeds in the past my son and I were using a spear pole and did get a lionfish on the end of our poll. My son gestured to me to drop the pole. Before I could do so, the shark came from behind and bumped forcefully into my hand that was holding the spear. Fortunately his mouth was closed and I did not feel any teeth. I got the fish off the end of the pole and the shark circled around and ate him. It was a close encounter that certainly scared me. I could see how this shark might easily have attacked me if I had not released the pole. I'm not sure that this has any bearing on the question of whether to limit spearfishing activity, but I do think that our human behavior especially underwater hunting certainly changes the shark behavior. I highly doubt that the shark would have had an interest in me nor would it have bumped me if I had not been spearing lionfish.

 

[OkByMe]

The Ocean is already divided up, it is called Marine sanctuaries. I spear fish, but don't feed the fish. I can't fish in the sanctuaries or even wear gloves in most. I have had fish get closer to me than they otherwise would because the game bag might be leaching a little blood, but I would not call that aggressive. If someone is concerned about the association between the dangers of the deep and spear fishing, they should try to stay in the sanctuaries. Good luck with that, since I have found that the boogie man in the sanctuaries are more closely associated with the divers simply because of their exposure to the divers and their activities. One of my favorite dives is the Spiegle Grove near Key Largo. Sometimes the Bull Sharks are there and can be quite nosy, I have had to pop them a time or two to discourage them from coming so close to me. As far as I know, you can't fish that wreck, so they are just used to the divers and are not afraid of you.

 

[yardpro]

As a rec (not wreck) diver as well as a spearfisherman (usually freedive only) I can say please don't restrict access/use of any more water for spearfishing. I know there are multiple areas around the country that are protected areas (in CA called MLPA's) where there is no take allowed. This affects not only recreational (?) spearfishers but also commercial fishers, and commerce that your average hook and line angler brings to an area.

As far as the spearo's feeding fish, none of the ones I know in CA will leave anything more than gills and guts in the water. And that usually is after they are done for the day heading home, at the surface. IMO worldwide, we tend to be highly selective of what we shoot and anything we shoot we want to keep. Guys go to great lengths to prevent any signs of a distressed fish being telegraphed through the water and in high-risk areas, they get the fish out of the water asap.

In sum- no I don't think there should be any dive sites that are non-spearing unless there is a more pertinent reason (fishing regs etc). The likelyhood of a SCUBA diver being shot by accident is really pretty low IMO and should be even lower if the shooter is on SCUBA as well. If you're that worried about it, please go dive in already protected areas.

Dive safe and happy diving.

you obviously have no lionfish issues...

i hae also seen guys feeding the lionfish to the predators .. i think this may have a positive befit in that the predators will begin to get a "taste" for one of the most destructive invasive species the east coast has seen.

---------- Post added May 19th, 2013 at 06:55 PM ----------

I have no problems when a decision that a certain site has such great appeal for divers seeing a great population of marine life that is should be protected from human predation.


NW, I am surprised at your post when you just went through such a huge fight to protect just such a place. As long as there are plenty of places to spear, what's the problem with a few places having an understood, of not legal, protection? I am a former spearo who would spear again, if I had the opportunity. I can't understand the attitude that I have the right to spear anywhere I want to.

lol, of course you have no problem with more government regulation, you ive in chapel hill...LOL...

the problem with making certain areas off limits is that you reduce the areas that can be fished.. therefore increasing the spearing pressure on the remaining sites.... this is not a good thing...


to the OP,

i do believe that human actions change animal behaviors.. has been happening for a few hundred thousand years.. we are an animal just like them.All animals behaviors have effect on other animals, why should we be different. sharks follow the commercial head boats back to the docks here and feed on the carcasses. they have learned that behavior.. so do we ban commercial head boats, or ban cleaning the fish and throwing the carcasses into the water.. sure provides a good meal for fish on what's left....

sharks have been around much longer than us because they are highly adaptable.

I always find it amusing that people think these things are bad...

people say erosion is bad, and close mountian bike trail,and close trails to orv's and control what you can do with your land, but they LOVE the grand canyon.. which was caused by.... drum roll please.... erosion...

fertile deltas are created by ...... erosion...

this falls into the mindset that we have to protect everything to the nth degree...

environmental activists pushed for the smokey the bear anti forest fire campaign.. everyone remembers "ony YOU can prevent forest fires"....

well come to find out frequent fires are acutally beneficial and a natural thing... we stopped so many that when we did have fires they were catastrophic....

not common sense has come back and we have controlled burns....

come on people... common sense please....