Do you dive with a snorkel?

[-hh]

SeaJay once bubbled...
have found out in the first five finstrokes that chop or no chop... Swimming on your back in full scuba gear works a lot better than swimming face down - even if you have a snorkel.

It can depend. For example, I carry a pretty darn heavy camera system, and the "right place" generally to hold it is in front of me, at belly height. Rolling onto my back to swim isn't too bad with a Jacket style BC, but in a Back inflation type (BP/Wings, etc), it becomes a "topheavy" situation that simply doesn't work well when its rough. I relegate it for short duration, high exertion swims (such as getting away from waves breaking ashore).

This means that the rest of the time, I'm going to not be on my back, but in a position that needs an air supply system in my mouth, be it the reg or a snorkel.

I can assure you that every emergency situation I've ever been in like this has involved getting buoyant, leaning back in your gear and finning gently to shore.

Generally, the issue that I see with the proposal of using your reg instead of a snorkel is that your air supply is only going to last for a relatively short period of time. For a typical novice with SAC = 1ft^3, an AL80 with 500psi remaining will really only last 10 minutes, even if his SAC isn't in actuality a lot higher due to higher exertion levels.


The implication is that if you're on a drift with a chase diveboat, if they lose you due to degraded surface conditions, its not terribly unusual to spend 10-20 minutes on the surface before you're found and they pull up.

FWIW, within the past 12 months, I've probably had a half dozen dives that resulted in 10+minute surface drifts.

Even if the boat is only ~75yds away, they're not going to come speeding right to you: if they suspect other divers doing stops that might surface at any time, they'll either heave to and wait for everyone to come up, or come in very slowly. This can result in 5 minutes as a cork very easily.

Even if we say they arrive within 2-3 minutes, since it generally takes ~2 minutes for each diver to get onboard a small boat in rougher conditions, this means that the last guy in a sixpack can be expected to be in the water for 10+ minutes before its his turn. If he's on his regulator, that's an easy 500psi worth of air.

You know, I'd have had more respect for the answer, "I just like snorkels," or, "I'm worried that this might happen..."

Personally, I always dive with a snorkel. Been doing it that way for the past three decades, and the more advanced/remote the location, the more necessary IMO it is to have a snorkel.

My decision on if to switch to it on the surface depends on how soon (or not) pickup is going to be: if it looks like its not going to be immediate, I'll switch over to snorkel to conserve tank air.

Reason for this is because a DiveAlert horn is the best tool to signal a diveboat far away, and they don't work without an air supply. When you're diving off of Wolf or Darwin in the Galapagos, if your ship issued you an EPRIB, policy is that you don't even activate it until you've been drifting for a half hour. That means I'll be using the Horn for 29 minutes to help the zodiak fix our position, as the current will move us along nearly a mile in that period of time.

And for the entangler complainers: if it gets in your way, you either have the wrong $20 snorkel, or you rigged it wrong.

Finally, I've only had to rescue one diver so far this year, and the reason was they had drained their tank empty and then couldn't deploy their snorkel from their BC pocket to cope well with the short chop that we were in, and their abilty to "roll back" was compromised by the presence of a back inflation (Ladyhawk) BC.

The lesson here is that if you're going to stuff your snorkel, make sure that you can redeploy it in the water while carrying whatever you normally carry (in this case, they had an UW camera).


-hh

 

[dbulmer]

SeaJay,

I agree with nearly all you posted but I do think Learn-scuba has a point.
Way before I was certified my dad was on a dive in Jamaica.
A group of 4 I think surfaced expecting to find the boat but it wasn't there. What had happened is that the divemaster operated as the boat captain and divemaster. He dived with the group and left a young lad in charge of the boat.

The young lad didn't take a shore bearing and the boat began to drift for about 2 miles as the lad was reading a book. After a while the lad realised (somehow) he was not where he was supposed to be and started to panic. Luckily he used a radio and another dive operator figured out where he should be. Bottom line is that dad was on the surface for about 90 minutes or so in water with a little current. My dad was in his late 50's and he told me that he did find the snorkel useful in that situation.

BTW when the group finally got back on the boat, there was a look on the captain's face that suggested if there had been no witnesses the young lad would have been in deep doodoo - I believe a lot of Jamaican swearing was heard that day.

Seajay that's a true story sir - but , even so, in the same situation I'd have preferred to swim on my back because I find it the most comfortable position for me.

It's not as extreme as learn-scuba's story but it does show that a snorkel might come in useful.

 

[etype]

i think the snorkle argument is not worth an argument. The snorkel as many know, isn’t that important. I personally like snorkelling with just fins, masks and snorkel. I wear a snorkel on shoredives...i carry it as gear in case i want to use it. But it is not essential equipment. PADI’s requirement that you have it, is probably so the shop can sell you one more thing....

I think Padi could make some arguments why the snorkel is a good piece of gear for saftey’s sake...but counter arguments of entanglement would make that moot. Anyone diving penetration or using reels would ban snorkels among their group with justification.

One thing i would like to suggest to Seajay, with respect that you may disagree, is that a equipped diver who is snorkelling face down can cover that two miles about twice as fast as a diver floating on his back and kick finning. The face down snorkelling position is a far more natural position for extended swimming ‘imho’. This assumes the snorkelling divers is watching his compass enough to maintain something like a bee line.

But anyway you slice it, a snorkel is not essential gear. That said, i personally encourage new divers to learn to use one well, because used it’s a very enjoyable way to travel shallows, or to swim distances with an economy of effort.

 

[SeaJay]

I have no idea where you're coming from on this.

Yesterday I boat-dove about 23 miles off the Georgia coast. I wasn't feeling well because of the 3' swells... Which eventually worked themselves up to a 4' wave-and swell combination that was simply not "comfy." It really sucked, especially since it had been a very smooth morning.

Anyway, I wasn't feeling good at all... So what did I do? I jumped in. There I was, for the entire 45 min to hour surface interval, in a mask, fins, and wetsuit only. To me, "bobbing" in the ocean was significantly less nauseating than "rocking" on the boat.

And I didn't need a snorkel. Nor did I want one.

In fact, after a while, I asked someone to go ahead and throw me my BC... So I could inflate it and relax a bit more; which is exactly what I did.

I neither drowned nor used my regulator.

Look, y'all... If ya wanna wear a snorkel, feel free. I don't think it's worth arguing about either.

...But I'm calling the BS Flag on anyone that says that you're gonna drown without it... Or even that it makes a diver "safer."

I also can't relate to those of you who cover less ground on your back than on your stomach. Maybe if you're holding a heavy camera... I dunno... I've never held a heavy camera while trying to surface swim without a regulator. For me, surface swimming is all about being on your back... Even in the worst of currents.

Feel free to use what works for you. But if someone asked... And they did... I'll tell them how I feel about snorkels.

They suck.

They work great for snorkeling. I don't wear them when I talk on the phone, when I eat, when I type on the computer, when I drive my car, or when I am diving. I only wear one when I'm snorkeling. The rest of the time it stays in the bag.

'Course, that's just my opinion. Yours may vary.

 

[g8trdiver]

Check out the post from 4/11/2003 by FLL DIVER on a thread about key Largo dive operations - you find it easily enough by searching key words. Basically it's a summary of a lawsuit against a Key Largo dive operator... Here's the title of it:

March 7, 2000

NEWS RELEASE

FLORIDA KEYS DIVE BOAT COMPANY PLEADS GUILTY TO NEGLIGENT OPERATIONS FOR ABANDONING TWO DIVERS FIVE MILES OFF KEY LARGO

Part of the rest of the text is on the post...

If it can happen in Key Largo - I suppose it can happen in Honduras.... Wonder if they swam on their backs, or face down - with or without snorkels?????

 

[etype]

i checked out that post because the comment in regard to snorkels made no sense. Now that i have checked out the post i can postively state it makes no sense whatsoever, and has nothingn to do with snorkel use. Even the comment at the end wondering if they 'had or had not snorkels', that seemed to suggest a negative disparagement of snorkel use...as if snorkels were probably there in Key Largo with their usual fouling up of lives and crushing of dreams....in no way relates to snorkels other than some sort of surrealistic free association.

I notice the same regarding seajays post...the situation of that day has nothing to do with the debate concerning snorkel use. Representing the case as if that day some sort of malign presence was slowly slipping a snorkel into your honest and sincere daily affairs, disturbing your comfort and begetting nausea...makes no sense whatsoever as everybody knows the snorkel is a humble, work-a-day utility with no conciousness of it's own existence.

So i must assume this argument is some sort of irrational gear nationalism that has nothing to do with reality.

The snorkel is just a short breathing tube that allows one to swim in a prone position and observe the enviroment below. It is not an evil plot, a deadly but slow poison or a trite fashion statement. It is not mentioned in the Apocolypse as a tool of satan...nor as the horn of the angels of the saviour.

Lets find real situations where snorkels have set fire to buildings and buggered innocent divers. And if we have to reach back to celtic myths or aboriginal dreamtime legends...lets at least make it interesting.

The whole gear fascism thing is really another sport other than scuba. It's also a drawing of lines that does not allow clear and rational judgement regarding the best use of certain types of gear at certain times.

But it's obviously fun to do or otherwise people wouldn't do it. So in the spirit of things...i will cite Sigmund Freud to suggest that people who don't use snorkels, do so because of latent homosexuality.

 

[PhotoTJ]

etype once bubbled...
So in the spirit of things...i will cite Sigmund Freud to suggest that people who don't use snorkels, do so because of latent homosexuality.

:rofL:

Damn, that's funny!

 

[learn-scuba]

etype once bubbled...
<snip> i will cite Sigmund Freud to suggest that people who don't use snorkels, do so because of latent homosexuality.

lmao

 

[bm9]

I never use it. The local charters by us don't require them, it gets in the way, and I would rather keep the reg in my mouth if the water is choppy.

 

[SeaJay]

I'm LMAO too.

etype once bubbled...
I notice the same regarding seajays post...the situation of that day has nothing to do with the debate concerning snorkel use. Representing the case as if that day some sort of malign presence was slowly slipping a snorkel into your honest and sincere daily affairs, disturbing your comfort and begetting nausea...makes no sense whatsoever as everybody knows the snorkel is a humble, work-a-day utility with no conciousness of it's own existence.

Pardon?

The point was that I didn't need or even want one, given the exact scenario where people had quoted that having a snorkel nearly meant the difference between life and death.

So i must assume this argument is some sort of irrational gear nationalism that has nothing to do with reality.

Hunh?

Now why in the world would anyone have "some sort of irrational gear nationalism?" That's one of the silliest things I've heard on this board.

I don't dig snorkels, man. That's all.

Look... Try wearing one while you are talking on the phone. Pretty pointless, eh? Silly? Yes... Annoying? Of course.

...And just as useful when diving as talking on the phone.

It can be rationalized that it's a good idea to wear a snorkel while talking on the phone... You know, just in case there's a flood.

To me, wearing a snorkel while diving is exactly as irrational.

I mean, heck... If you're going to use a snorkel while you scuba dive, why not carry a secondary air source when you snorkel?

The snorkel is just a short breathing tube that allows one to swim in a prone position and observe the enviroment below. It is not an evil plot, a deadly but slow poison or a trite fashion statement. It is not mentioned in the Apocolypse as a tool of satan...nor as the horn of the angels of the saviour.

LMAO... Now THAT's funny.

Lets find real situations where snorkels have set fire to buildings and buggered innocent divers. And if we have to reach back to celtic myths or aboriginal dreamtime legends...lets at least make it interesting.

Likewise, let's find real situations where secondary air sources have set fire to buildings and buggered innocent snorkelers.

Silly, isn't it?

The whole gear fascism thing is really another sport other than scuba. It's also a drawing of lines that does not allow clear and rational judgement regarding the best use of certain types of gear at certain times.

I'm interested in finding out why you think this thread is about "gear fascism" instead of simply understanding that some of us don't like to use snorkels when scuba diving.

After all, "fascism" can be seen either way.

But it's obviously fun to do or otherwise people wouldn't do it. So in the spirit of things...i will cite Sigmund Freud to suggest that people who don't use snorkels, do so because of latent homosexuality.

I wonder what Dr. Freud would have thought about you finding sexual references to a piece of plastic tubing.