Farnsworth Banks accident last weekend?

[keithbt]

When I DM, we teach for a diver to be able to swim up from 20 feet with NO air in their BCD. CESA!!

 

[Bob DBF]

If nothing else, I hope this accident reinforces instructors and AI's, DM's to teach and reteach weight ditch and other skills (SMB deployment, air management, Nav) And also take the time to really look at a divers ability and feel compelled/obligated to point out flaws or errors in a divers planning, practices and logic. Also for the Non Pro divers; Take time to PRACTICE!!! SMB's Nav, Buoyancy, OOA EP's etc etc.

~R~

I would add emphasizing the ability to disregard the safety stop in an emergency, I would gather that they had well under 500# at the stop and I wouldn't really trust an SPG below 500#.

This also brings up the limited time of instruction for one to secure an OW certification. It takes time to produce a good diver, I'm not sure the industry is ready for a change to longer more comprehensive classes.


Bob

 

[finnks]

Bob...

If nothing else, I hope this accident reinforces instructors and AI's, DM's to teach and reteach weight ditch and other skills (SMB deployment, air management, Nav) And also take the time to really look at a divers ability and feel compelled/obligated to point out flaws or errors in a divers planning, practices and logic. Also for the Non Pro divers; Take time to PRACTICE!!! SMB's Nav, Buoyancy, OOA EP's etc etc.

~R~

I'd amend that from "Non pro divers" to "all divers." Many (such as myself) who PADI considers "pro" are anything but. I DM 2-4 times a year and make one or two recreational trips for a total of 15-30 tanks a year. Have met many DMs and even instructors who are less active than I am. Of course if you use "pro" in a more correct manner to mean those who dive for a living (or even a material portion of their income) - they probably do not need to be reminded to practice self reliance skills as much - they do however need to be routinely practicing rescue skills/scenarios (as should the rest of us). To some extent active pros get practice on weight dropping, CESAs, etc though reminding customers as well as teaching and demonstrating.

 

[Power Scuba]

When I DM, we teach for a diver to be able to swim up from 20 feet with NO air in their BCD. CESA!!

The "no air in your BC" part of your CESA drill is interesting to me. Can you quote/refer me to the standard?

Bill

 

[keithbt]

The "no air in your BC" part of your CESA drill is interesting to me. Can you quote/refer me to the standard?

Bill

Hi Bill,

I will try to find the PADI standard for you. Basically, when we have our students are on their knees in a line on the bottom at 20 feet, they have no air in their BCD to keep them down and stable. The instructor then takes one of the students closer to our float. He then has them perform the CESA the same way we did in the pool. One of the main objectives of the skill is to orally inflate their BCD at the surface because they are supposed to be out of air. If they have to orally inflate the BCD then by default there cannot be any air in it.

 

[Chuck Tribolet]

If they have to orally inflate the BCD then by default there cannot be any air in it.

Or they have air in their BC and are overweighted.

Chuck

 

[Scott]

Hi Bill,

I will try to find the PADI standard for you. Basically, when we have our students are on their knees in a line on the bottom at 20 feet, they have no air in their BCD to keep them down and stable. The instructor then takes one of the students closer to our float. He then has them perform the CESA the same way we did in the pool. One of the main objectives of the skill is to orally inflate their BCD at the surface because they are supposed to be out of air. If they have to orally inflate the BCD then by default there cannot be any air in it.

Here is the standard.
Highlights are mine.

Controlled Emergency Swimming Ascent
Briefing the Skill
Instruct student divers to:
• Retain their regulators in their mouths.
• Not drop their weights. Remind students that in an actual emergency, they ditch weights only when any doubt exists about their ability to reach the surface.
• Not use the control line for assistance — the line is only for the instructor to use for control and emergency stopping.
• Maintain a normal ascent rate.
• Make a continuous sound throughout the ascent.
• Resume normal breathing if you stop the ascent, or if they experience any difficulty.
• Orally inflate the BCD or drop weights upon reaching the surface.

Setting Up the Exercise
Use a vertical control line buoyed by a surface float. Ensure that the line is either tied off firmly at the bottom or held down with sufficient weight to enable you to stop the ascent at any time by grasping it with a hand or leg wrap while holding the student firmly. Conduct the skill one student at a time while maintaining physical contact with both the student and the control line.

Site
Begin this skill at a depth of at least 6 metres/20 feet but not exceeding 9 metres/30 feet.

Conducting the Exercise
1. Grasp the student with one hand and maintain contact with the line.
2. Give the up signal to begin the ascent. The student begins to exhale while emitting a continuous sound.
3. The student kicks to start, then reduces effort and continues kicking. The student doesn’t use the control line during the ascent. Ensure that the student keeps the regulator and weights in place. The student’s air remains turned on throughout the exercise. Don’t help the student ascend.
4. The student maintains contact with the BCD or dry-suit deflator mechanism to vent excess air during ascent.
5. Observe and maintain control during the ascent, not exceeding 18 metres/60 feet per minute. The student should be held near and just below you, which allows
you to listen for the student’s sound and tends to make the student look up toward you. Watch to be sure the student exhales continuously. Stop the ascent if there
is any doubt. If you must interrupt the ascent, have the student repeat the exercise from the beginning.
6. Upon surfacing, have the student orally inflate the BCD or drop weights. Caution to look for divers below before releasing weight. Observe the student before engaging in
other training exercises.

Three and four give the impression that the skill should be conducted while neutrally buoyant. I'm having a hard time understanding why you would want to begin this skill negative. Sounds counter productive to me.
If a diver needs to do a CESA in real life shouldn't they be neutral or close to it?

 

[keithbt]

Here is the standard.
Highlights are mine.

Three and four give the impression that the skill should be conducted while neutrally buoyant. I'm having a hard time understanding why you would want to begin this skill negative. Sounds counter productive to me.
If a diver needs to do a CESA in real life shouldn't they be neutral or close to it?

Hi Scott,

With 7 mil wetsuits at only 20 feet deep student become buoyant real fast. Most jump a bit at the bottom so in a few seconds they are half way to the top. Some could have a little air in their BCD but not neutral, they never have that much control yet. My point was that the person involved in the accident seemed to descend from 15 feet uncontrollably down...To be doing their safety stop they must have been neutral....I felt anyone passing a scuba cert. should be able to swim up from 20 feet without ditching the weights, unless something else went wrong. Thanks for the standard.

 

[Randar]

As an FYI - 110 FSW +/-

~R~

---------- Post added May 5th, 2014 at 09:00 AM ----------

Amen to that!!!

~R~