Blue Life
Contributor
We love diving caves Sidemount! Have fun!
First time diving doubles and sidemount.
- Thread starter cidcolada
- Start date
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We love diving caves Sidemount! Have fun!
I don't think anyone has mentioned a big dif between BM and SM is gas management. Independent doubles vs manifold
doubles.
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doubles.
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OP
cidcolada
Registered
I see this as one of the advantages that SM has. I know there is a little more task loading in this, especially when learning, but it gives you the redundancy of completely independent air-sources without having to add a slung pony or bailout tank (which I have started diving with anyway)
You'll probably have more trim issues with the doubles--they'll try to put you head down and you'll react by trying to stay head up, because you'll feel like you're going to roll right over when you get flat.
OP
cidcolada
Registered
Ron, that is something that I have been reading about and ways to counteract it.
One of the concerns that I do have is weighting. With a single PST hp100, diving with my Ranger and a 3mm wetsuit, I need no weight. So unless a 7mm is WAY more buoyant I may have issues because of that. I'm almost certain that we will be using Faber lp104's.
Another thing that I have been considering that will push back the start date of my cave training, is picking up diving dry. I know that I will have to do a lot of diving in a drysuit before I would feel comfortable going into a cave course with it.
One of the concerns that I do have is weighting. With a single PST hp100, diving with my Ranger and a 3mm wetsuit, I need no weight. So unless a 7mm is WAY more buoyant I may have issues because of that. I'm almost certain that we will be using Faber lp104's.
Another thing that I have been considering that will push back the start date of my cave training, is picking up diving dry. I know that I will have to do a lot of diving in a drysuit before I would feel comfortable going into a cave course with it.
victorzamora
Contributor
Faber 104s are the big 8" diameter tanks. In my experience, the increased diameter adds drastically to the drag. I've done a dive on cave-filled 95s and gotten less penetration on the same day as cave-filled 85s. The increased diameter is, imho, miserable to deal with. 104s, cave filled, have WAY more gas than LP85s....but I'd be surprised if you got that much more penetration out of it. Also, depending on who you do your cave training with, you may not want/need the extra gas. More penetration means more time exiting means more time they can be mean to you
. Also, you'll probably be buddying with a diver using smaller tanks, reducing the benefit of your big tanks.I'd pick up a drysuit as soon as possible. It's not needed, but it makes you a lot more comfortable during your training. You'll be in the water so much during your training you'll really want the added warmth and comfort of a drysuit. I did Apprentice with a guy wearing a wetsuit, and he was blue and shivering at the end of every dive just because of the length of the exposure to water.
Another benefit of the drysuit is buoyancy characteristics. Your suit doesn't lose buoyancy as you descend (if you add air) and it can be used as redundant buoyancy control in a worst-case scenario. As for the added buoyancy of a 7mm.....it depends on the brand, type, and depth you're going to. The main problem with a wetsuit in FL caves is the depth. Some of the most common FL caves are ~100ft deep. You'll lose a lot of warmth and a lot of buoyancy doing that. If you dive Faber LP85s, those things aren't very negative so in a wetsuit you're much better of with those.
Also, I can't recommend Edd's enough. If you want good, consistent, logical training that really pushes you to be a better diver from divers that really are pushing SM competency and consistency, Edd Sorenson and/or Michal Turek are the only people I can wholeheartedly recommend. I progressed more with them on any single day of diving than I did in the 18 months prior with multiple Tech courses and mentors. I can't say enough good things about those guys.
TracyN
Contributor
I would also recommend Edd. His class consists of more than here's a couple of tanks put them on and lets go dive. The instructor also has to know how to adjust the tanks and bungees appropriately so they aren't hanging down in front of you like stage bottles or floating up behind you. Both will kill your trim and air consumption, plus it just doesn't look good. All you have to do is hang out at Ginnie Springs for a day and you will see configurations that are anything but sidemount yet their instructors were the greatest, that is assuming they even took a class. A "good" instructor will teach you the how and why for every modification on your rig and will greatly reduce the learning curve.
All you have to do is hang out at Ginnie Springs for a day and you will see configurations that are anything but sidemount yet their instructors were the greatest, that is assuming they even took a class. A "good" instructor will teach you the how and why for every modification on your rig and will greatly reduce the learning curve.
OP
cidcolada
Registered
Okay, so I did my diving SM and BM diving this weekend, and I have come away with a few observations.
First off, I had no idea just how soft my fins actually are! In the video of me that my wife shot, the fins look like wet noodles attached to my feet. My form for my frog kick was simply non-existent when we started out in the morning (this just made worse by the floppy fins). Later in the day I changed to some considerably stiffer fins that really helped on that front even though I needed thicker booties to really make them fit my feet.
When people say that you need to have a backplate harness tight, they are NOT kidding. If there is any play in the harness, the tanks will take any opportunity there is to move around and totally screw your trim! Also, it is amazing to me how much lower I needed to mount doubles (LP85's) than I do a single HP100. This was a big challenge for me at the start, because the tanks were moving around on my back and I couldn't really feel it and it wasn't always immediately obvious looking at me. One of my big worries was that I would be WAY heavy with the twin steels on, but with a 7mm farmer john, that really wasn't an issue at all.
As far as SM goes, I was amazed at just how much more stable I felt. With the tanks under my arm, everything just felt good right away. I could tell that there was a lot of room for improvement, but the Nomad harness was super comfortable, and relatively easy to adjust. For me it seemed much better to have the tail of the tanks attached on the rails on the butt-plate, even though I have had a lot of people tell me that they hook them to the kidney d-rings. I would still have some work to do with adjusting the trim of the tanks, but this was more of just a familiarization session, and not a full sidemount course.
I have a set of older LP72's that I think I will double back up and spend some more time in the pool getting comfortable, but right now I think that I am leaning more toward sidemount for now. I also know somebody that has an extra Nomad harness that I may see if I can borrow for some more SM coaching before making a final decision on which route to go.
Thanks to all who responded with suggestions, and words of encouragement.
First off, I had no idea just how soft my fins actually are! In the video of me that my wife shot, the fins look like wet noodles attached to my feet. My form for my frog kick was simply non-existent when we started out in the morning (this just made worse by the floppy fins). Later in the day I changed to some considerably stiffer fins that really helped on that front even though I needed thicker booties to really make them fit my feet.
When people say that you need to have a backplate harness tight, they are NOT kidding. If there is any play in the harness, the tanks will take any opportunity there is to move around and totally screw your trim! Also, it is amazing to me how much lower I needed to mount doubles (LP85's) than I do a single HP100. This was a big challenge for me at the start, because the tanks were moving around on my back and I couldn't really feel it and it wasn't always immediately obvious looking at me. One of my big worries was that I would be WAY heavy with the twin steels on, but with a 7mm farmer john, that really wasn't an issue at all.
As far as SM goes, I was amazed at just how much more stable I felt. With the tanks under my arm, everything just felt good right away. I could tell that there was a lot of room for improvement, but the Nomad harness was super comfortable, and relatively easy to adjust. For me it seemed much better to have the tail of the tanks attached on the rails on the butt-plate, even though I have had a lot of people tell me that they hook them to the kidney d-rings. I would still have some work to do with adjusting the trim of the tanks, but this was more of just a familiarization session, and not a full sidemount course.
I have a set of older LP72's that I think I will double back up and spend some more time in the pool getting comfortable, but right now I think that I am leaning more toward sidemount for now. I also know somebody that has an extra Nomad harness that I may see if I can borrow for some more SM coaching before making a final decision on which route to go.
Thanks to all who responded with suggestions, and words of encouragement.
SWAMPY459
Contributor
While I'm still in the process of figuring things out with sidemount, I have not and probably won't take a sidemount class and so far I'm perfectly happy with it and not frustrated. I probably won't go back to backmount...
but then again, I'm a self-teacher. I taught myself to dive in overheads
You can have the shoulder straps on doubles as loose as you can make them and still reach your valves -- if the crotch strap is good and tight. No matter how tight you make the shoulders (to the point where getting in and out of the harness is a pain) it won't keep the tanks in place if the crotch strap is loose.
I know the "in thing" is sidemount . . . but if you spend a little time in backmounted doubles and get your weighting and tank placement right, they are very easy to dive. They are also much more easily adapted to other diving outside of caves, so it's easy to stay current in them. I will freely admit that properly adjusted sidemount gear is great fun -- but when you first start cave diving, you have no business in any cave where a sidemount configuration is REQUIRED for access, so your choice of equipment should be based on other things.
I know the "in thing" is sidemount . . . but if you spend a little time in backmounted doubles and get your weighting and tank placement right, they are very easy to dive. They are also much more easily adapted to other diving outside of caves, so it's easy to stay current in them. I will freely admit that properly adjusted sidemount gear is great fun -- but when you first start cave diving, you have no business in any cave where a sidemount configuration is REQUIRED for access, so your choice of equipment should be based on other things.
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