First time diving doubles and sidemount.

[TracyN]

but then again, I'm a self-teacher. I taught myself to dive in overheads

Any you are going to be the next Darwin Award recipient. I just hope none of my friends have to die trying to get your cold, stiff corpse out or that a cave gets shut down.

 

[SWAMPY459]

Any you are going to be the next Darwin Award recipient. I just hope none of my friends have to die trying to get your cold, stiff corpse out or that a cave gets shut down.

In this case YOU don't know what you don't know.

 

[victorzamora]

Swampy, I've been trying to hold my tongue and be helpful.....but this is crazy. If you were as squared away as you seem to be claiming in sidemount, you wouldn't have the thousand threads you do trying to answer basic sidemount questions. If your overhead diving is as squared away as your sidemount seems to be, I humbly suggest you seek PROPER TRAINING.

 

[SWAMPY459]

Swampy, I've been trying to hold my tongue and be helpful.....but this is crazy. If you were as squared away as you seem to be claiming in sidemount, you wouldn't have the thousand threads you do trying to answer basic sidemount questions. If your overhead diving is as squared away as your sidemount seems to be, I humbly suggest you seek PROPER TRAINING.

I said I taught myself to dive overheads, 100% true statement.

I did not say I don't have the certification to back that up.

Someone stated: "Everyone I know who tried to "teach themselves" ended up frustrated and went back to backmount."

I said I was a new sidemount diver, with only a handfull of sidemount dives, but that I was not so frustrated that I would go back to backmount. And at this point, even though I'm a little rough around the edges on sidemount I think taking a class would be a total waste of money. This ain't rocket science.

 

[PfcAJ]

Faber 104s are the big 8" diameter tanks. In my experience, the increased diameter adds drastically to the drag. I've done a dive on cave-filled 95s and gotten less penetration on the same day as cave-filled 85s. The increased diameter is, imho, miserable to deal with. 104s, cave filled, have WAY more gas than LP85s....but I'd be surprised if you got that much more penetration out of it. Also, depending on who you do your cave training with, you may not want/need the extra gas. More penetration means more time exiting means more time they can be mean to you . Also, you'll probably be buddying with a diver using smaller tanks, reducing the benefit of your big tanks.

Farther in the cave with less gas.

Seems like a great idea.

 

[victorzamora]

AJ: If it's easier to swim out, I don't see what the problem is. I'm always diving conservative calculations for turn pressures. If the big LP95s cause me to have to struggle more, increasing my CO2 loading and my SAC rate.....I don't see how it's negative to go to LP85s, as long as appropriate gas planning is involved. By your logic, you should dive with a drogue 'chute and/or in poor trim to ensure you don't penetrate as much. You should also chug through gas as fast as possible, to reduce the penetration distance.

SWAMPY: You're not "rough around the edges" and I'm not requiring that you pay for a class. I'm suggesting you get with a mentor or buddy that has SM experience. I'd be happy to help you out. SM is definitely not rocket science, and it's definitely nothing you can't figure out on your own.....but it takes a lot of time to polish into something pretty and presentable. Getting a good buddy/mentor/instructor simply reduces the time required. It also answers a lot of questions and should take some of the error out of your trial.

 

[PfcAJ]

The reserve gas isn't just about swimming out. Its about time. Time to sort out problems, look for a lost buddy, find the line, negotiate restrictive areas. Being farther from the door means more potential for issues and more variables. Being there with less reserve gas doesn't make a lot of sense, esp when the reason you can't take bigger tanks is an issue of skill.

If big tanks cause you to increase your sac rate and struggle, you're doing it wrong.

 

[Colliam7]

First off, I had no idea just how soft my fins actually are! In the video of me that my wife shot, the fins look like wet noodles attached to my feet. My form for my frog kick was simply non-existent when we started out in the morning (this just made worse by the floppy fins). Later in the day I changed to some considerably stiffer fins that really helped on that front even though I needed thicker booties to really make them fit my feet.

You are pushing more weight / mass through the water with doubles. It is not just about streamlining. Many / most doubles divers find that stiffer fins provide a basis for better propulsion. I prefer Jetfins with doubles - back or side mounted. But, I can use my Mares Quattros, although I won't say I go anywhere with any speed. I have real trouble using very flexible split fins with doubles. That isn't a statement that a particular fin is 'bad', rather that stiffer fins may provide benefit in certain situations.

For me it seemed much better to have the tail of the tanks attached on the rails on the butt-plate, even though I have had a lot of people tell me that they hook them to the kidney d-rings.

You will find a bit more emphasis on clipping the bottom attachment point to the waist D-rings among people diving AL cylinders than among divers using steels. That is not an absolute truth, by the way, just an observation. Some will recommend starting a dive with the AL cylinders clipped to the butt rails, and moving the clips to the hip as the cylinders empty and the bottoms become more floaty. Honestly, I find little difference in my trim, and generally use the butt rails for both, although I still periodically move the AL clips to my hip, just to see how much of a difference I notice. Where you see a difference is in the visual presentation - there are quite a few YouTube videos showing divers with nearly empty AL cylinders, clipped to the butt rails, and the floaty bottoms do tend to stick up prominently. That is at least a streamlining issue if nothing else.

As far as SM goes, I was amazed at just how much more stable I felt. With the tanks under my arm, everything just felt good right away.

And, that is a not uncommon reaction to the first sidemount dives. I describe sidemount to prospective students as having the stability of a pontoon boat. Often, after a dive or after a course, they will say, 'That is exactly what it felt like.' It makes sense when you think about it - in a horizontal position in a SM configuration, your weight is spread out a bit wider than with BM, and the center of lift is slightly above the weight, rather than the other way around.. With BM doubles, the center of weight is slightly above the center of lift - you may be a little top heavy with certain cylinders, and there is a tendency to roll. With enough experience, BM doubles divers adapt with 'station-keeping' - usually some finning, and don't really notice it. The first season I dove backmount HP130s in a wetsuit, it was very noticeable for me, not so much any more.

I dive both, and I like both. I do find - this is my experience only - that people who start with BM doubles and then try SM, are not as 'taken' by the experience as people whose first doubles experience is in SM. Others may have a different perspective.

 

[victorzamora]

....the reason you can't take bigger tanks is an issue of skill....

If big tanks cause you to increase your sac rate and struggle, you're doing it wrong.

I'm sorry, but NEITHER of these are accurate. Bigger tanks cause more drag, reducing the efficiency of ANY diver's propulsion techniques. This means that, for the same gas, you'll get less penetration. Increasing the force required to move is a direct cause for increasing your SAC rate, and increasing the size/mass of the tanks is a direct cause of that. I'm doing nothing wrong, it's simple physics.

 

[PfcAJ]

Weird. My SAC in a single al80 is the same as it is in double 104s with 2 stages.

Perhaps where you're going wrong it attempting to move the same speed? I don't kick any harder with either configuration, ergo my sac rate doesn't go up.

But hey, if you wanna "go far" on some tiny tanks, go nuts.