Has anyone NOT passed their OW?

[Saltyhawg]

We had one in our class (out of 10) that couldn't keep up with the class in water skills. He went ahead with the classroom work and got some private lessons. I don't know whether he later passed or not.

 

[boulderjohn]

We had one in our class (out of 10) that couldn't keep up with the class in water skills. He went ahead with the classroom work and got some private lessons. I don't know whether he later passed or not.

It is very common for a diver who is having trouble in a large class to be taken out of that group and given private instruction. I have seen it often, including in the last class I taught. I have never known the student to fail after being given that special attention.

 

[TMHeimer]

I am not sure about what you said. Are you saying you see 1 in 10 students not pass their scuba courses?

I was unclear. By "quit" I should have said gave up for that course, or was encouraged either to do so by the instructor or to sign up for more instruction later. I only DM about 4 courses per season, so if someone doesn't finish it out with that course, in my mind that is a "fail" or "quit" for that course, as it's likely I'll never see them again. Depends on what you define as "not passing". I didn't pass the DM Stamina Tests 6 years ago, but did several months later. I failed. Then I passed.

 

[RJP]

I was unclear. By "quit" I should have said...

Call it whatever you want; any shop/instructor that has a 10% attrition rate DURING their open water course needs to do some introspection. (And if that doesn't even include those students who shouldn't be diving but are moved along anyway, merely being "encouraged to sign up for more instruction later" that's another issue altogether.)

 

[boulderjohn]

Call it whatever you want; any shop/instructor that has a 10% attrition rate DURING their open water course needs to do some introspection.

As an instructor, you look at a student who is struggling and say, "What can I do to make this student succeed?" You look carefully at the student as he or she performs skills and look for the specific reason for the problem. You identify those problems and provide solutions. Given enough time--and I am not talking about an eternity--you should be able to get almost any student to succeed. I don't have 10% of my students having problems that require me to do anything special to help them. I can't imagine a 10% failure rate.

 

[TMHeimer]

Given enough time (as John says) is logical. 10% failure rate in OW courses? (again, defining "failure"--does it mean students quit outright, or do they continue later on to complete OW?). As a Band teacher in a VERY well-respected program in Northern Manitoba, we started 100+ beginners in 6th Grade (Gr. 6 for you Canadians). The Sr. High Band had anywhere from 60-100 players (grade 9 or 10 through 12). What % of attrition rate is THAT? Is scuba different? I defer, not being an Instructor.

 

[TSandM]

Kudos to your instructor -- I wish mine had said that to me! I wasn't really ready, but we did it anyway.

In the five or so years I've been assisting my husband with classes, we have had a handful of students who have not ended up with an open water card. One or two have quit very early on, and those were people with such severe anxiety problems about being in the water, that they really shouldn't have signed up for a diving class in the first place. We have also had a few students who opted for the "Scuba Diver" cert, which requires that you stay shallow and dive only with a pro; again, these people were all hampered by fear, and not by being untalented or slow to learn.

I am living proof that anybody who isn't afraid can learn to dive, so relax and enjoy the fact that your instructor wants you really well prepared before you go to open water.

 

[boulderjohn]

Given enough time (as John says) is logical. 10% failure rate in OW courses? (again, defining "failure"--does it mean students quit outright, or do they continue later on to complete OW?). As a Band teacher in a VERY well-respected program in Northern Manitoba, we started 100+ beginners in 6th Grade (Gr. 6 for you Canadians). The Sr. High Band had anywhere from 60-100 players (grade 9 or 10 through 12). What % of attrition rate is THAT? Is scuba different? I defer, not being an Instructor.

Define it any way you want. If 10% of my students did not complete the program in the normal allotted time, I would be dismissed from the shop's instructor corps pretty quickly. As I said above, I don't have 10% having enough difficulty to require me to put in much extra effort to get them to master the skills.

 

[rhwestfall]

yes.... class was part of a college curriculum. Student demonstrated all the confined water skills as well as the academic portion well. When the individual got to open water, they literally couldn't put their face in the water without panic. Numerous attempts were made (not pushed), but no success was achieved. As it was in school, and the instructor was part of the school (so not through a dive shop), the student failed.....

I'd say 99% of programs are not done this way.

 

[Peter Guy]

OP -- As an instructor I've "failed" only one student -- a wonderful child who was just too small to physically do some of the skills in the gear that was available -- and she went on to get certified later, in warm water which lessened the physical demands. (I saw her a couple of years later and she had grown quite a bit and was very happily diving.).

I've "counseled" a few students to either think about NOT diving (primarily due to anxiety issues) or to not contemplate cold water diving until they are more physically fit (either old and out of shape or very young and small).