Has anyone NOT passed their OW?

[MXGratefulDiver]

I always make sure my students understand that they're buying instruction ... not certification. That said, I've only ever twice "failed" an OW student. The first time was because he wasn't trying. He apparently didn't understand what I told him and figured all that was needed to get certified was to show up. I counselled him that he might be happier pursuing his training with a different instructor. The second was a guy who went full-on panic on his first OW dive when he attempted to clear his mask. The problem had never manifested during the pool work, and was ... I believe ... due to the cold water temperature. After working with him in shallow water for a couple hours I advised him that we could continue working on this, but that I wasn't taking him back out beyond where he could stand up and breathe until he showed me he could do it without bolting to the surface. He opted to not continue.

I also had a student who, on the first night in the pool clearly demonstrated his inability to get in water above his head without severe anxiety. I advised him to work with a swimming instructor for a while before continuing ... and never saw him again. But I didn't fail him ... I'd have been happy to work with him once he overcame his initial fear of the water ... but scuba class isn't the place to work on that particular issue.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[RJP]

I've "counseled" a few students to either think about NOT diving...

As I heard someone once say "I realized it was time to have 'the bowling conversation' with the student..."

 

[dmaziuk]

I also had a student who, on the first night in the pool clearly demonstrated his inability to get in water above his head without severe anxiety.

We had a couple of people in my class who didn't seem to have any problem with that. Keeping their heads above water -- or, rather, keeping their hands off the railings -- during "float for 10 minutes unassisted" test, that they couldn't do.

 

[pancakes74]

Thanks for the helpful advice and words of encouragement (so glad I found this board!) The "we" is my boyfriend and myself, we're taking private lessons and doing our referral dives in Maui next month with Ed Robinson's (Ulua Beach.. been there many times as a snorkeler :cool2: ). Our instructor is awesome and very thorough so I do believe he just wanted us to get in a few more practice sessions. I guess I was just wondering if there was a chance we wouldn't receive our certification if we made any small errors but it sounds like that won't be a problem. We're both very comfortable in the water, just need to smooth out a few skills. It's hard to learn proper ascension rate and buoyancy in a small pool!

 

[Diver0001]

Has anyone not passed their OW? Just finished our confined water and classroom sessions, will be taking our final written within the next week or so and open water dives in Maui next month. Our instructor said we're doing well but that we're not quite ready for the final open water and need a couple more practice pool sessions. Getting nervous....

I've never failed anyone outright but I have refused to accept a few into training and advised a few that it was my opinion that they should give up.

Learning to dive isn't hard for most people but there are a few that come with baggage that goes WELL beyond what the course is set up to handle. Substance abuse, psychosis, some physical disabilities that need specialized instruction, severe phobias that almost completely road-block learning....

The trick (I believe) as an instructor is to identify people who are not going to become divers on day 1 and offer to refund their money before both student AND instructor are frustrated. I'll give you a couple of examples.

- a student who came for an intro dive. I spent 45 minutes with her before I could get her to lay flat on her belly on the surface with a regulator/mask and breathe. After another 45 min I got her to submerge in 1.2 meters of water. It was the most mind blowing experience she had ever had. She wanted to sign up for OW the same day. I said no. She couldn't swim and told me before the dive that she was terrified of water, which she was! I told her to come back with a swimming diploma and then we would talk. She never came back.

- A student in a DM class (I was not the instructor I was DM-ing) who flew into a full blown panic every time she needed to remove the regulator from her mouth. She bounced on day 1.

- A student who was pretty much literally dragged by her hair to class by her boyfriend. "YOU WILL LEARN TO DIVE BECAUSE I DEMAND IT". We identified this relationship dynamic almost immediately but took her to the pool to evaluate her. She *really* didn't want to be there and resisted EVERYTHING. After the pool session we asked her to stay after the debriefing. We took her apart into a private room, refunded her money, asked her about her relationship. She cried and opened up a bit and we asked her if she wanted us to help her escape, which was a bridge too far for her at that time......We told her that the offer stood if she wanted our help. The boyfriend, of course,.... er..... "disagreed" with our decision not to train her.... Yeah, let's say he "disagreed". I hope he didn't beat her that night for being a bad OW student but he was REALLY mad at us. I think the chances are 90% that he did.

- Many students who take part of the class and then make excuses to "delay" further training. about 80% of those are delaying further training because they don't want to proceed but don't know how to say it. If a student wants to delay I always ask them if they want to delay or if they are having doubts as to whether diving is for them or not. I try to be as empathetic as possible. Most want don't want to stop but don't want to go on either. Human beings can be complex that way.

You do get the odd one who sticks it out even though you really think they have picked the wrong hobby. One case I can recall was a person who spent 20 hours in the pool and had another 20 dives in open water before I could certify her. For her, learning diving was a confrontation with herself. She didn't really want to become a diver. She wanted to tackle certain insecurities head on and overcome them. To her the diving course was a means to that end. She told me the day I certified her that I was the only person in the world other than her father who really understood her and that learning to dive gave her a new start in life. To be honest I was a little surprised. She was higher educated than I am and professionally more successful. TBH I hope she never dives much but uses that experience to boot-strap herself to the next level.

R..

 

[boulderjohn]

Thanks for the helpful advice and words of encouragement (so glad I found this board!) The "we" is my boyfriend and myself, we're taking private lessons and doing our referral dives in Maui next month with Ed Robinson's (Ulua Beach.. been there many times as a snorkeler :cool2: ). Our instructor is awesome and very thorough so I do believe he just wanted us to get in a few more practice sessions. I guess I was just wondering if there was a chance we wouldn't receive our certification if we made any small errors but it sounds like that won't be a problem. We're both very comfortable in the water, just need to smooth out a few skills. It's hard to learn proper ascension rate and buoyancy in a small pool!

It sounds like you'll do great!

If you make small errors during the dive, the instructor should make corrections and have you do the skill over again until he or she is convinced you have it nailed. Look ahead in your log book to the four dives you will be doing. You will see there the skills you will need to do on each one. Some of them are flexible and can be done on different dives, but all of them are listed. Just set out for Maui confident that you can do those skills.

Compass skills are required, and you probably weren't taught those. The person doing the OW dives will teach them.

 

[TMHeimer]

I've never failed anyone outright but I have refused to accept a few into training and advised a few that it was my opinion that they should give up.

Learning to dive isn't hard for most people but there are a few that come with baggage that goes WELL beyond what the course is set up to handle. Substance abuse, psychosis, some physical disabilities that need specialized instruction, severe phobias that almost completely road-block learning....

The trick (I believe) as an instructor is to identify people who are not going to become divers on day 1 and offer to refund their money before both student AND instructor are frustrated. I'll give you a couple of examples.

- a student who came for an intro dive. I spent 45 minutes with her before I could get her to lay flat on her belly on the surface with a regulator/mask and breathe. After another 45 min I got her to submerge in 1.2 meters of water. It was the most mind blowing experience she had ever had. She wanted to sign up for OW the same day. I said no. She couldn't swim and told me before the dive that she was terrified of water, which she was! I told her to come back with a swimming diploma and then we would talk. She never came back.

- A student in a DM class (I was not the instructor I was DM-ing) who flew into a full blown panic every time she needed to remove the regulator from her mouth. She bounced on day 1.

- A student who was pretty much literally dragged by her hair to class by her boyfriend. "YOU WILL LEARN TO DIVE BECAUSE I DEMAND IT". We identified this relationship dynamic almost immediately but took her to the pool to evaluate her. She *really* didn't want to be there and resisted EVERYTHING. After the pool session we asked her to stay after the debriefing. We took her apart into a private room, refunded her money, asked her about her relationship. She cried and opened up a bit and we asked her if she wanted us to help her escape, which was a bridge too far for her at that time......We told her that the offer stood if she wanted our help. The boyfriend, of course,.... er..... "disagreed" with our decision not to train her.... Yeah, let's say he "disagreed". I hope he didn't beat her that night for being a bad OW student but he was REALLY mad at us. I think the chances are 90% that he did.

- Many students who take part of the class and then make excuses to "delay" further training. about 80% of those are delaying further training because they don't want to proceed but don't know how to say it. If a student wants to delay I always ask them if they want to delay or if they are having doubts as to whether diving is for them or not. I try to be as empathetic as possible. Most want don't want to stop but don't want to go on either. Human beings can be complex that way.

You do get the odd one who sticks it out even though you really think they have picked the wrong hobby. One case I can recall was a person who spent 20 hours in the pool and had another 20 dives in open water before I could certify her. For her, learning diving was a confrontation with herself. She didn't really want to become a diver. She wanted to tackle certain insecurities head on and overcome them. To her the diving course was a means to that end. She told me the day I certified her that I was the only person in the world other than her father who really understood her and that learning to dive gave her a new start in life. To be honest I was a little surprised. She was higher educated than I am and professionally more successful. TBH I hope she never dives much but uses that experience to boot-strap herself to the next level.

R..

You're way above me on the cert. and experience level and to me it seems you have a great approach to "questionable" students. Especially in quickly identifying those who maybe should not even begin the course (money back, etc.). I have only seen a very few of these students, but from what I read, doing a scuba OW course is not much like taking a subject course in high school, college, etc. It seems it is very hard to actually "fail" scuba. Nevertheless, as a retired teacher I would say the people you describe did pretty much fail (except for the last example you cited). Kudos to you and her for sticking it out to the end (for whatever reason she had).

 

[TSandM]

"Small errors" are expected in new divers! This is a sport which takes time to learn to do well. If you are calm and confident, and don't do anything dangerous (like inflating your BC to ascend, or freaking out if your mask floods) you will do fine.

I did someone's first real dive after certification with him today. He felt bad about making some "small errors", but I told him that, when I dive with a novice, if they stay where I can see them, monitor their pressure responsibly, and don't cork on the swim back to shore, I call it good

 

[Becca65]

no idea how many "fail" - for me personally the class was challenging - grew up not knowing how to swim, took swim classes as an adult but was never very comfortable in the water - until I got a snorkel mask - found with my mask on I actually enjoyed being underwater - so I started thinking maybe I would be able to do scuba classes (something my husband always wanted to do but never did because I would not). Did the mask off in the pool ok, did the mask flood in OW ok, but the first time I tried the mask off in OW I did freak out and bolt to the surface. Our teacher was very patient with us - we stopped for the day - I went home and practiced taking my mask off underwater in our little above ground pool - went back and did the skill in OW and passed. According to our instructor I was not his first student to freak when doing that skill. As has been said I think most instructors are willing and able to work with you if you have difficulty with a skill.
Probably some here would say I shouldn't have been taking a scuba class - but we've gone on to do some lake dives within driving distance from our home and this January we took a cruise and dove in Grand Cayman (with a dive master and a small group) and Cozumel (just us and a dive master).
Have also taken a couple other classes since our OW - took a night dive class and a Nitrox class - hearing some of those people in the Nitrox class talk about things they have done while diving I have to wonder how they passed OW!

 

[Crowley]

I don't know if "fail" is the right word but I've certainly discontinued training until such time as a student is prepared to get in the water and - as a result - lost out on personal income. If you work - as I did - in a resort where people are only staying for a week then there inevitably has to be a cut-off somewhere. I'm quite prepared to take as much time as possible to get people comfortable in the water but some people just don't want to be there - several times I've encountered divers who are under 'marital pressure' to take the course - ie to keep their partner happy - and I remember the look of relief on their faces when I explained to them that I wasn't going to continue until they'd become more comfortable in the water. They were pleased! "honey the instructor man says I shouldn't do this"!! talk about having to be a diving diplomat!

In some cases it's been for medical reasons that have turned up after the training started - Not because they lied on the medical but simply because they didn't know they had a problem and when you work in hot, tropical locations then every now and then you have to halt the training because the student can't get off the toilet!

In most cases where a student has not 'passed' an open water course I've been teaching it's been due to time or financial pressure - once a course goes beyond the time frame or allowable number of dives as sold by the dive centre then yeah - I'd probably keep going for free but it's rare a business is going to agree with that. Where possible, I've tried to forewarn the student and ask if they wish to keep going and pay extra or halt and we'll only charge for the Scuba Diver certification (half the PADI Open Water cert.) I have, and never will, try to extend a course deliberately for my own financial gain. In every case, I've completed the referral paperwork refunded money where it's been appropriate and advised them on how to proceed towards certifcation. Some will, some won't, and unlike the agency under whose auspices I work, I very firmly believe that diving is NOT for everyone!

Cheers