How do you deal with derision?

[MXGratefulDiver]

You know, I've been asked at EE before why I bought xx item, and they've informed me of a competing item that had benefits I wasn't aware of. To reply with "Do you want my money ... or not?" seems rather quick tempered and insecure in your buying decision.

... depends entirely on who's doing the asking ... and in what tone of voice.

I have absolutely zero patience for dive shop owners or employees who presume too much ... particularly when I know that they have certain prejudices about how people should dive. On the other hand, I can talk all day to ones who seem genuinely interested in a legitimate exchange of information. I mentioned earlier that EE is one of my favorite shops ... that genuine interest is a significant reason why.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I routinely question my customers about their purchases. I'm in the problem solving business and I can't help when I don't know what problem the customer is trying to solve.

Most appreciate this, a very few "grenade" when asked about virtually anything. I've always found this odd.

Tobin

... and it does cost you a sale from time to time.

But you're not doing it because of some prejudice about certain types of equipment or diving style ... and you're not deriding anyone ... you're just trying to make sure they get equipment that's gonna be suitable for what they're trying to do with it.

Makes a big difference ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[cool_hardware52]

... and it does cost you a sale from time to time.

I'm completely OK with this. I'd *MUCH* rather pass on a sale then sell something I think inappropriate.

Tobin

 

[TSandM]

I can't find it now, but the first time Peter went by EE, they had a huge banner in the front window that said, "Snorkel packages"

Mr. Crist, if you would laugh at someone diving doubles and dry in Coz, you'd bust a gut at this:

But I loved my dry suit in the Red Sea, because I was warm no matter HOW long I spent in the water, and I loved my doubles, because some of my dives were well over two hours long.

 

[David C R]

The only thing that comes to my mind is that when I was a recent fundies certified diver I was doing a lot of single tank reef diving with some good friends whose are a dive club owners and of course I was the only diver with 7 hose bp/w pockets ... No need to mention they were making a LOT of fun about the way I was diving. I couldn't be more happy with my gear and the fast and clear improvement on my diving. After a year one of the dm in the club tried the bp/w and just by now all the dive club crew is using most of the same principles about the dive we do. They're not gue trained cause is way too expensive for them here but it makes me laugh now cause I´m always making fun of them about the nongue divers that are trying to "copy" us. We're great friends and never minded the comments and the way they look at me at all...


We live in a world where everyone is seeking for the approval of others...what a waste of time.

 

[Guy Alcala]

But "right" is a black and white term. If something isn't right, it's wrong. Right? (2+2=3 is not 75% right; it's wrong).

AFAIK, the term DIR originated with the conclusion of one of George's articles, "If it's not hogarthan, it's not right..." Per my interpretation, it's fair to conclude that non-hogarthian gear configurations are "wrong" within the scope of his article.

My question is: so what?

Isaac Asimov once wrote an essay titled "the Relativity of Wrong". To take your equation (a version of which he actually used in the essay), 2 + 2 = 3 may be wrong, but it's a lot closer to right than 2 + 2 = Blue. And 2 +2 = 3.99 is almost right, and so on.

Guy

 

[gsk3]

Thats just because there are no grocery store workers that are nearly as helpful as dive shop workers.

You only think that because you've joined the dark side and started working at a dive shop!

 

[randytay]

I'm a new DIR diver (not a new diver, just new to DIR - I did my Fundies recently, still provisional and trying to get a pass). I'm still in the process of dialing in my gear - before the class I switched from a bc to a bp/w, changed out my hoses, etc. Last week I bought a can light, and learned how to use it on dives over the weekend. Now I just picked up a couple DIR-compliant back-up lights, and need to attach them to my rig.

So today I stopped by a local dive op - the only dive op in my area that pumps Nitrox, as it turns out - to pick up a couple of bolt snaps. I only saw brass ones, so I asked the owner if he had stainless. He urged me to buy the brass ones instead, because "they'll last way longer than stainless". I told him I really needed stainless, and he seemed confused by that, until I said "well, I need them for the GUE class I'm taking", thinking that would explain it well enough and he could just give me a straight answer as to whether or not he has them.

He rolled his eyes and said, "Oh yeah, those guys. Yup, you'll HAVE to use stainless. Sorry, you won't find much in here for what you're doing." And then he turned his back on me and seemed no longer the least bit interested in offering me any service at all. I was a bit stunned - I mean, am I not welcome in his shop because I happen to take GUE classes? The bummer is that he's the only place I can get Nitrox fills, and frankly I'm not too interested in giving him my business after that kind of treatment.

This is not the first time this has happened. When I was in Costa Rica recently, we did five days of boat dives, and several other divers on the boat were very curious about our bp/w rigs, having apparently never seen anything like it before. Which was fine - we were happy to answer questions about it - until the guys who saw our Halcyon gear and asked me if we're cave divers. When I said no, they made some derisive comments about "fake tech divers" (and then they started talking in their own language, I think it was Dutch, and seemed to have a few more choice things to say about us among themselves.)

I also recently was at a dive event and mentioned my Fundies class, and several divers whom I know and respect made similar derisive comments...things like "oh those guys are dive nazi's" and "why bother taking tech training if you're just doing recreational dives?" You know the drill.

Then, of course, there was the recent, infamous "Fundies kicked my ass" thread, which surprised me with the anti-DIR vehemence of a certain poster in that thread (until he weirdly went all soft and started talking about food and wine - what was up with THAT? :w-t-f.

Now, I'm well aware that there have been conflicts between the DIR and non-DIR diving communities for years, many stretching back to disagreements and incidents that happened way back when, with people like GI III and others. I don't know the whole history - not really interested - but I know enough to know there IS a history.

My question is, what do you say when people act like that? I'm not really sure what I'm asking for - I certainly don't expect to be able to change closed minds all by my lonesome, and I'm not interested in proselytizing - but a couple of choice phrases might work (which might make me feel a little better than just slinking away!). I'm sure many of you dive mainly with other GUE/UTD trained divers - but I will continue to do more dives without DIR divers than with, just cuz that's who I know. I also do a lot of dive travel (I'm heading for Cozumel next week) and, if my experience in Costa Rica is any indication, I can expect to continue to have encounters like this.

I'm just curious what y'all say and do when you run into this type of reaction.

Welcome to my world.

So I took Lynne's advice. Ignore them and just dive with them.., and it sorta work. I see a some of them tried to emulate the classic DIR "pose" underwater with an orchestra conductor results. A couple of them actually started to ask me real questions about my rig instead of being condescending. All has found respect for my decisions but I am still not allowed by my instructor to use my own rig when doing DM work for OW students. :/

 

[STJ]

The shop owner's action left a lot to be desired but look at from his point of view. He's probably heard the whole DIR/GUE thing one too many times. If you're going to be a DIR purist, accept that it often draws strong reactions and can be polarizing. A simple "I just prefer stainless steel" will suffice. Me - I think DIR is valuable but I deviate on several key points. I have my reasons and I have more than enough experience for those reasons to be considered rational. So if a DIR diver wants to discuss it, fine, but if the discussion is really just an attempt to convert me and they just dismiss my reasons and start in with "only one way", it does make me bristle inside and I have no further interest in the discussion or the diver. I can evaluate and think for myself instead of being led like sheep. So like I said, you got an unfair response from the owner but he may have heard just a little too often. All that said - I see no reason why you can't patronize the guy for fills. Give him a chance and see what kind of shop he runs. Just my two cents. As Denis Miller used to say: Of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong.

 

[lavachickie]

I acknowledge that apparently many people have had run ins with divers of a certain type who have left a bad taste in their mouth. Individuals, groups, or entire organizations can certainly be a-holes.

All I can say first hand is this:

In the short time I've been diving, 1.5 years here in the PNW, the MOST helpful, generous and productive information I've gotten has been from those who identify as DIR. And with NO attempts to brainwash, indoctrinate, or otherwise own me. I'm talking about direct person to person communication.

And when I see "these people" people dive together -- it's a thing of beauty. I want that. I've been working to emulate that within my environment regardless of what logo is on the gear, or how long the hose is.

I know that my future holds training outside of the PADI play book. And through that, I endeavor to continue to dive like these people I have come to admire dive: with confidence, order, compassion and generosity.

If people give you crap, just smile at them, and say, "Hey, man, I don't care how you dive as long as its safe and you have fun. Why you gotta beef with me?" And as for that store owner... if he's that big of an a$$, if it wasn't this issue, it would be another, most likely, down the road.