I Don't Know How Instructors Do It

[Phish-phood]

And then there is the flip side of the coin.

I sat on a course recently where all students did everything that was asked of them perfectly with no problems.

they paid attention to everything that was said, they carried out their skills with confidence and ease, they came out of dives and asked intelligent questions, they dealt with problems easily and efficiently and they adhered to their buddy pairs and were aware of each other and of the other divers around them. there was even a couple of 'natural divers' who hit their bouyancy perfectly on their first OW dive and between them this course of six, kicked up less of the dirt on the bottom than some of the more experienced divers in the water that day.

Instructors do the job for the pleasure of finding a course of easy to teach divers and for the satisfaction of teaching bad divers to be good divers.

That siad your whole story raises a few questions. Instructors cannot have their eyes on every single diver at every single second, so where were the DM's or assistants who should have been helping.
You can tell new divers something on the surface and they totally forget about it in the excitement or stress of being in a new environment as could have been the case with coral petting divers, so where were the assistants to stop them remind them of what they were told on the surface.
Instead of copping an attitude why did you not have the patience to stop and help a couple of these new divers. Not everyone can afford one on one tuition, not everyone is a natural in water and not everyone can get their bouyancy skills perfect first time out, it's the whole point of being a new diver and practicing. Is it such a long time since you were a new diver that you have forgotten what is like to learning new things.

 

[JohnVranesevich]

I also find it highly unusual to invite a recently certified OW diver to tag along on an OW training session

They invite all of their certified students to go along on these dives. They say it gives them an opportunity to get wet, and meet other new divers, so that friends can be made, and future dive buddies can be found. I also guess the fact that this LDS is an official agent for the Boat Company and probably makes a commission doesn't hurt any either, haha.

I'm curious. What was that diver doing up there to begin with?

There were divers all over the place, at all different levels, probably over a 20 foot verticle range. I had a buddy assigned to me, another newly certified diver. We stayed around a constant depth, but the students seemed to bobble up and down within the 20' range.

What *does* seem to be clear is that it didn't take you long to cop an attitude about "new" divers, even to the point of telling a student in training to F-himself for running into you and accidentally dislodging your mask.

That was exactly the point of my thread, I don't know how instructors do it. I did loose my patience, and get an attitude. After being kicked in the face for the 2nd time, I was not happy. I absolutely admit that giving the 1 finger OK sign was not the least bit appropriate.

Where was the instructor or the CA when that happened?

The instructor was in front of the pack, towing the dive flag. The Assistant was in the back of the pack, and several feet higher, keeping track of a 10 year old student that was along with us (who also happened to be his son, urgh).

Who was in control? Where was the guy's buddy?

The individual OW Students didn't have 1 on 1 buddies. Basically, they were all each other's buddies. I had my buddy, the other OW Certified guy, and we looked after each other, but the students were instructed to keep an eye on each other student that happened to be close to them at any given time.

Also, I'm curious which excercises they were doing. Which skills were they domonstrating?

It was their final OW dive, and the instructor had arranged it to be a "pleasure dive". As such, no individual skills were being demonstrated. All of those were demonstrated the previous day in the lake.

Was there an ascent line? What were they using as a reference for ascent/descent?

My buddy and I used the line attached to the dive flag as a visual reference for an ascent line. The other students just kind of went up to the surface one-by-one whenever they happened to be when they reached 600 PSI (the instructor's designated amount to begin surfacing with).

 

[Boogie711]

In fact, with all due respect I find your story pretty hard to take a face value.

Amen to that. That's a pretty serious attitude for a guy with 7 dives. You're not going to make many friends - either online or on a dive boat - if you act like that.

The fact that you're still copping an attitude like this and would bother to tell us about it says a lot.

 

[FatCat]

though I've passed every course I ever took with flying colours.

I've been diving like mad for the last three years now, managed to rack up an (so they tell me) amazing number of dives, became partner in a dive centre, finally got to teaching students and came across divers with attitude.

Don't think I was ever so cocky though...

 

[JohnVranesevich]

Greetings:

Well, maybe I am just a cocky a**h**e then....

As a new student, I was required to demonstrate mastery of certain skills, to insure my own safety, and the safety of those around me.

These people, on their final "pleasure dive", exhibited a total lack of even the most basic skills or common sense, which from my novice perspective, seemed to put both themselves and others at risk.

The point of my original post was simply to be that I am amazed at an instructor's abilities to deal with what I found to be a very stressful and nerve racking situation. And they have to go through it on a regular basis....

I realize that one of the reasons that I found the situation so nerve racking was because I am still inexperienced myself, but I also think a big part of it might be that these people were just "pushed along" through the course, regardless of their mastery, or lack of mastery, of fundamental skills.

I could be, and by the reaction to my other posts, probably am, way off base here. It just seems like some instructors are afraid to fail students, perhaps for business reasons, even when they obviously don't demonstrate the skills that the certifying agency defines as required.

 

[WJL]

Well John, I don't know why you're getting jumped on this way. I absolutlely believe that the dive went exactly as you described, and I absolutely understand your reaction. It seems that many divers pass through their OW certifications without any real competency, and being around them can be quite alarming before they gain it.

Welcome to dive training in the 21st century.

 

[baenglish73]

It might be a group issue. Large mixed-ability groups seem bulky and hard to manage. I'm not a DI or DM -- just an observation.

With large groups, my buddy (whom I trust) and I tail the group or flank the group. Moving at the front of the group only gets a head up your arse should you dare to stop and have a look. We don't see what the DM points out, but we've gotten better at finding our own stuff.

 

[JohnVranesevich]

baenglish73 once bubbled...
It might be a group issue.

Now that's a fair observation that I hadn't considered.

Being in a group while diving really is almost like another skill that needs learned. I found that it took me a while to acclimate myself to keeping at the same speed as everyone, without getting ahead or behind everyone else. This is one of the reasons why my buddy and I stayed low, and "out of the pack" so to speak.

All of the students seemed to try and crowd all around the instructor, presumably because they were a little uncomfortable, and felt "safer" the closer they could get to him (I had the advantage of diving 1 on 1 with my instructor, so this wasn't as much of an issue with me when I went on my first OW to the Atlantic).

So, that could account for some of the problems as well.

 

[baenglish73]

JohnVranesevich once bubbled...


This is one of the reasons why my buddy and I stayed low, and "out of the pack" so to speak.

Yea, flanking low or high doesn't work, if that is even considered flanking.

I don't like swimming underneath people; I'm not trained for overhead environments.


:stupid:

 

[CD_in_Chitown]

The dive that you've described doesn't say much at all for your instructor, his partners, or to be painfully blunt, your skills either. The instructors I work with wouldn't continue a dive like you've described, nor would they sign off on the cert cards of divers like you've described.

I think you're being unfairly judgemental of a situation that you didn't fully grasp, but if your description is accurate I would have reservations about the dive center in question. Six students with only two leaders isn't the best scenario, six students who all appear to have unresolved issues is a cf.