Deep Sea Supply! Their quality is incredible. Tobin returned a call to me tonight to answer a question. How many other companies would call a customer on a Sunday night to answer a question?? Tobin's equipment is great, his service is great, you can't go wrong with a DSS bp/w system.
I need a BP&W
- Thread starter offroaddiver
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
OP
offroaddiver
Guest
I've been diving for 5 years and I've been renting gear. I can't remember how many dives I've done as I haven't logged all of them. Right now I'm doin quary and lake diving. But since gf and her dad are also divers I'm gonna be diving in the ocean in either coastal georgia or florida. I'm sick of renting gear that I can't trust (I have had to abort a weekend of diving because a bc I rented wouldn't hold air, plus other horror stories). I stayed away from purchasing gear and I've rented enough that I could of paid for a complete setup 3 times but I decided to try different brands and setups.
Weight used:25 lbs and that was over weighted for me with a 5 mil fj&j wet. That was with an al 80.
30lbs in salt water and 3 mil fj&j wet with al 80. That's the most current
Currently planning on taking DM course over xmas break.
I've looked at OMS, diverite and dss. Diverite had a chart that i'd over looked as to the recomendations of bladder to tank setup.
Right now I'm looking at buying a stainless steel bp with the dss weight blocks. I found a link online for setting up a one piece webbing harness, So I am goin to go try that out and possibly get a "comfort" harness with a back pad for the treks with the gear on my back and diving with a skin only. I'm going with a 40-45lb bladder. I'm also looking at adding pockets for the extra gear I usually carry (either macro lense for camera, backup light, etc.)
Overall any suggestions in addition to what I've stated?
Some people sent IM's about what wrecks I wanted to dive that were the conditions I was mentioning. I found the remains of a town in a mountain lake in east tn. Do a search for "underwater towns in the south" for an idea of what I'm talking about.
Overall I wanted a rig that is adjustable for different uses instead of purchasing rigs for each condition. Thanks for all the suggestions.
Chalk up everything to experience. I definitly have learned alot through my own mistakes....SUCH a shame that I found SB after dealing with everything through personal experience.
Weight used:25 lbs and that was over weighted for me with a 5 mil fj&j wet. That was with an al 80.
30lbs in salt water and 3 mil fj&j wet with al 80. That's the most current
Currently planning on taking DM course over xmas break.
I've looked at OMS, diverite and dss. Diverite had a chart that i'd over looked as to the recomendations of bladder to tank setup.
Right now I'm looking at buying a stainless steel bp with the dss weight blocks. I found a link online for setting up a one piece webbing harness, So I am goin to go try that out and possibly get a "comfort" harness with a back pad for the treks with the gear on my back and diving with a skin only. I'm going with a 40-45lb bladder. I'm also looking at adding pockets for the extra gear I usually carry (either macro lense for camera, backup light, etc.)
Overall any suggestions in addition to what I've stated?
Some people sent IM's about what wrecks I wanted to dive that were the conditions I was mentioning. I found the remains of a town in a mountain lake in east tn. Do a search for "underwater towns in the south" for an idea of what I'm talking about.
Overall I wanted a rig that is adjustable for different uses instead of purchasing rigs for each condition. Thanks for all the suggestions.
Chalk up everything to experience. I definitly have learned alot through my own mistakes....SUCH a shame that I found SB after dealing with everything through personal experience.
- Messages
- 3,138
- Reaction score
- 4
That helps a bit, thanks. Your weighting description I find a little confusing and leads me to suspect that you don't have that quite dialed in yet. But I'm going to assume that you need a fair amount of weight. It also appears that you do mostly fresh water local diving with some trips to the coast. I'm guessing that your mode of transport is mostly by auto and that flying around the world ain't your bag.
First off, I think that you need to get this idea of saving money out of your head...at least in terms of your future plans. Having tech diving as a goal is fine, but I think that's all it should be for now. Focus on getting as much experience as you can in the OW realm and buy your gear with that in mind. The cost of tech diving is so HUGE that about the only thing you're gonna save by buying a BP/wing is the cost of a standard BC...you can just skip that step that a lot of us went through. In the same vein, you should realize that what you buy today is likely not what you will need in the future...again with your stated goal in mind. For instance,while you MAY be able to use the plate, you still will have to buy another wing. But really, this is a drop in the bucket compared to the costs of tech diving.
Another thing... Is this humping gear for two miles what you do now...or is this something that is associated with your future plans of 'penetrating a deep cold wreck'? I can't think of any specific BP/wing combo that is going to be easier than another with this in mind. Pads might ease the pain a little...for a few steps...maybe...but you're still gonna have a minimum of 35 pounds on your back. I think a BP is probably better than a standard BC in that the plate helps get the weight up on your shoulder and off the lower back...but still...it just isn't going to be fun hiking a long distance with all your dive gear no matter what. It sounds like you need a horse or a Tennessee sherpa...well that's what I would do if I had to hike any further than a half a mile.
As far as specific gear choices are concerned, since you stated that you aren't interested in "paying a chunk of money for a brand name", I would suggest that you look at Tobin's line or maybe even Oxycheq. Unfortunately, given your need for weight, to set up a fine tuned rig you will have to invest in a few other things that you might not need if your weight requirement was less.
It would be easy to say, "ah...just get a SS plate and a wing." But I think that overlooks your specific needs and while you could certainly do that, it would leave you with a rig that is...uh...less than optimal. Think about it...if you need 30 pounds when you hit the beach and you're in a 6 pound rig, you're gonna have to sling a 24 pound weight belt. Even in your fresh water environment you would still need 20. So much for good trim. It is very likely that you will be able to shed some of that weight requirement with some practice and education...but even so...if your main thing is cold water, you are gonna need the appropriate exposure protection and that translates to significant weight.
What additional gear am I talking about? Some combination of a heavy plate (or some variation of same) and/or a STA (standard or weighted) and/or cam band weight pockets would serve you best.
This is how I would suggest you do it...
Given what you have told us I think an inner bladder/outer shell type of wing would serve you best. With that in mind, order up a singles rig from Tobin. Get his standard 30# wing...you don't need a 40...rigged with his standard plate and hog harness. 445 bucks...you will not find a better deal for superb quality and craftsmanship and his personal support is without rival. Don't buy the other stuff, yet. But be aware that to tune your rig you will probably have to get a few more things.
After you get his rig, spend some time diving it. Read up here on SB about a "balanced rig' and study up on how to determine your true weighting requirements. Then get in the water and figure it out. After you do that, you can then start putting together what you need to get things dialed in.
As you know, Tobin's plate accepts additional weight plates. Bam! You can immediately bump your plate up to 14 pounds. Then you can add my personal favorite solution for high weight requirements...cam band weight pockets. They allow you to add up to 12 pounds on your back but better yet, they allow you to shift weight up and down the cylinder and on and off your weight belt while facilitating trim. I also always recommend getting a STA. They make things SOOO easy and they give some extra support when using cam band pockets. You can tweak things here as well by using a standard 2 to 3 pound STA or a weighted 6 pounder.
Having said all of that, let me add a qualifier. My wings are Halcyon and Agir and I use a combination of plates and STAs from Halcyon and FredT. While I have and use one of Tobin's plates, I do not have his wing. I have no doubt that his wing is of the finest quality, having heard so much about them, but I have not yet put together all of his gear in the manner described above. Even so, I can't imagine why it wouldn't work.
Lots of stuff to consider and a lot of what Ive suggested some might find over-complicated. But I'm a big believer in making use of all the advantages of a BP and wing, especially the modularity and 'tweakablity' that it affords the user. If you're gonna go down that road why not do it right.
First off, I think that you need to get this idea of saving money out of your head...at least in terms of your future plans. Having tech diving as a goal is fine, but I think that's all it should be for now. Focus on getting as much experience as you can in the OW realm and buy your gear with that in mind. The cost of tech diving is so HUGE that about the only thing you're gonna save by buying a BP/wing is the cost of a standard BC...you can just skip that step that a lot of us went through. In the same vein, you should realize that what you buy today is likely not what you will need in the future...again with your stated goal in mind. For instance,while you MAY be able to use the plate, you still will have to buy another wing. But really, this is a drop in the bucket compared to the costs of tech diving.
Another thing... Is this humping gear for two miles what you do now...or is this something that is associated with your future plans of 'penetrating a deep cold wreck'? I can't think of any specific BP/wing combo that is going to be easier than another with this in mind. Pads might ease the pain a little...for a few steps...maybe...but you're still gonna have a minimum of 35 pounds on your back. I think a BP is probably better than a standard BC in that the plate helps get the weight up on your shoulder and off the lower back...but still...it just isn't going to be fun hiking a long distance with all your dive gear no matter what. It sounds like you need a horse or a Tennessee sherpa...well that's what I would do if I had to hike any further than a half a mile.
As far as specific gear choices are concerned, since you stated that you aren't interested in "paying a chunk of money for a brand name", I would suggest that you look at Tobin's line or maybe even Oxycheq. Unfortunately, given your need for weight, to set up a fine tuned rig you will have to invest in a few other things that you might not need if your weight requirement was less.
It would be easy to say, "ah...just get a SS plate and a wing." But I think that overlooks your specific needs and while you could certainly do that, it would leave you with a rig that is...uh...less than optimal. Think about it...if you need 30 pounds when you hit the beach and you're in a 6 pound rig, you're gonna have to sling a 24 pound weight belt. Even in your fresh water environment you would still need 20. So much for good trim. It is very likely that you will be able to shed some of that weight requirement with some practice and education...but even so...if your main thing is cold water, you are gonna need the appropriate exposure protection and that translates to significant weight.
What additional gear am I talking about? Some combination of a heavy plate (or some variation of same) and/or a STA (standard or weighted) and/or cam band weight pockets would serve you best.
This is how I would suggest you do it...
Given what you have told us I think an inner bladder/outer shell type of wing would serve you best. With that in mind, order up a singles rig from Tobin. Get his standard 30# wing...you don't need a 40...rigged with his standard plate and hog harness. 445 bucks...you will not find a better deal for superb quality and craftsmanship and his personal support is without rival. Don't buy the other stuff, yet. But be aware that to tune your rig you will probably have to get a few more things.
After you get his rig, spend some time diving it. Read up here on SB about a "balanced rig' and study up on how to determine your true weighting requirements. Then get in the water and figure it out. After you do that, you can then start putting together what you need to get things dialed in.
As you know, Tobin's plate accepts additional weight plates. Bam! You can immediately bump your plate up to 14 pounds. Then you can add my personal favorite solution for high weight requirements...cam band weight pockets. They allow you to add up to 12 pounds on your back but better yet, they allow you to shift weight up and down the cylinder and on and off your weight belt while facilitating trim. I also always recommend getting a STA. They make things SOOO easy and they give some extra support when using cam band pockets. You can tweak things here as well by using a standard 2 to 3 pound STA or a weighted 6 pounder.
Having said all of that, let me add a qualifier. My wings are Halcyon and Agir and I use a combination of plates and STAs from Halcyon and FredT. While I have and use one of Tobin's plates, I do not have his wing. I have no doubt that his wing is of the finest quality, having heard so much about them, but I have not yet put together all of his gear in the manner described above. Even so, I can't imagine why it wouldn't work.
Lots of stuff to consider and a lot of what Ive suggested some might find over-complicated. But I'm a big believer in making use of all the advantages of a BP and wing, especially the modularity and 'tweakablity' that it affords the user. If you're gonna go down that road why not do it right.
ArcticDiver
Contributor
Hmmmm 5 years diving and 50 dives? That is what your profile says. So, you really aren't diving all that much. Also, you probably like the idea of penetration and overhead diving; but you may not like the reality of that style diving.
So, my suggestion is to not worry about exactly matching your gear to the task until you have a very good idea exactly what the task is. About the time you get experience you will know what gear and brands match your desires the best.
One reason why all the different brands and manufacturers exist. That is because each has slight differences that match the desires of a different group of folks. Some like this brand, or some like that brand. Someone else likes a different brand yet. Is there any real difference between all of them. Only to the afficianado.
So, my advise is to pick something you can afford and dive it. Bet you will be amazed at how versatile what you pick is. Then when you get more experience you may, or may not, want to change.
Best of good fortune.
So, my suggestion is to not worry about exactly matching your gear to the task until you have a very good idea exactly what the task is. About the time you get experience you will know what gear and brands match your desires the best.
One reason why all the different brands and manufacturers exist. That is because each has slight differences that match the desires of a different group of folks. Some like this brand, or some like that brand. Someone else likes a different brand yet. Is there any real difference between all of them. Only to the afficianado.
So, my advise is to pick something you can afford and dive it. Bet you will be amazed at how versatile what you pick is. Then when you get more experience you may, or may not, want to change.
Best of good fortune.
- Messages
- 3,138
- Reaction score
- 4
I just ran across a post where you said that you are 6'5" 280#.
I might have to amend my rec.
Tall fellas may find a larger than standard plate mo betta. Granted, some pretty big dudes use a standard plate but you should be aware of some options.
I guess, right now, the only extra large plate available is Koplin's. I believe that you can get one of his large plates - designed for guys 6' 3" and taller - thru Oxycheq. In fact, it might not be a bad idea to get one of his large 1/4# plates. That would put a chunk on your back... 12# or so.
FredT also makes a custom plate for you tall boys. This is how Fred recommends sizing...
"The procedure for plate length sizing is to place the fingers of your right
hand comfortably at the top of the spine between and above the shoulder
blades. Mark that spot and then measure down to the bottom of the belt on
your Levi's. Measurement of 15.5" or less takes the short plate, over 15.5
to 17.5 takes the "long" plate; over 17.5" takes the X-Long plate."
Fred's plates are unfortunately not available at this time but you might want to try measuring yourself as he suggests just to get an idea if a longer than standard plate is right for you. If you're not in a hurry, Fred will probably be back up and running again...at least we all hope so. He has a whole line of plates, weights, hardware, and harnesses and you'll be interested to know that he offers an option to save serious bucks by ordering his plates unfinished. He doesn't offer wings but his plates are uncanny at fitting just about everything out there. Pair one of his plates with a STA and a single 30 to 35# lift wing from Oxy, Halcyon, Agir, or OMS and you'll be stylin.
These are top quality plates that just need some final finish work to be ready to wear. Fred includes instructions on how to do this with some basic tools and an estimated time of a few hours. Of course, he has finished plates, too. But his prices, especially on his unfinished stuff, is as low as you're gonna find for serious gear. You can always PM him here on SB...just be patient for a response...he got hit hard by Katrina. I think that he has a new email but I don't know if that's something that he wants to use right now.
So ...there ya go...some more ideas.
I might have to amend my rec.
Tall fellas may find a larger than standard plate mo betta. Granted, some pretty big dudes use a standard plate but you should be aware of some options.
I guess, right now, the only extra large plate available is Koplin's. I believe that you can get one of his large plates - designed for guys 6' 3" and taller - thru Oxycheq. In fact, it might not be a bad idea to get one of his large 1/4# plates. That would put a chunk on your back... 12# or so.
FredT also makes a custom plate for you tall boys. This is how Fred recommends sizing...
"The procedure for plate length sizing is to place the fingers of your right
hand comfortably at the top of the spine between and above the shoulder
blades. Mark that spot and then measure down to the bottom of the belt on
your Levi's. Measurement of 15.5" or less takes the short plate, over 15.5
to 17.5 takes the "long" plate; over 17.5" takes the X-Long plate."
Fred's plates are unfortunately not available at this time but you might want to try measuring yourself as he suggests just to get an idea if a longer than standard plate is right for you. If you're not in a hurry, Fred will probably be back up and running again...at least we all hope so. He has a whole line of plates, weights, hardware, and harnesses and you'll be interested to know that he offers an option to save serious bucks by ordering his plates unfinished. He doesn't offer wings but his plates are uncanny at fitting just about everything out there. Pair one of his plates with a STA and a single 30 to 35# lift wing from Oxy, Halcyon, Agir, or OMS and you'll be stylin.
These are top quality plates that just need some final finish work to be ready to wear. Fred includes instructions on how to do this with some basic tools and an estimated time of a few hours. Of course, he has finished plates, too. But his prices, especially on his unfinished stuff, is as low as you're gonna find for serious gear. You can always PM him here on SB...just be patient for a response...he got hit hard by Katrina. I think that he has a new email but I don't know if that's something that he wants to use right now.
So ...there ya go...some more ideas.
cool_hardware52
Contributor
Stephen Ash:
Stephen,
I make three sizes, in two materials. The bolt on weightplates are available for both the "medium" ~5'4-6'1, and the "large" ~6'2 and up.
SS BackPlates
Scroll down for the sizes.
Tobin
- Messages
- 3,138
- Reaction score
- 4
cool_hardware52:
I knew that...dang it...what was I thinking! Sorry, Tobin...I just forgot.
Hey, Offroad... give Tobin a call. He'll get you fixed up.
Then go down to Southern Powersports in Cattanooga and get yourself one of these...
http://www.southernhonda.com/new_ve...=2&CatDesc=ATVs&ModelYear=2005&Manufacturer=1
OP
offroaddiver
Guest
In reply to the weight issue....I borrowed a tank and bc and hit the pool last night to see exactly what i need.. I needed 7 lbs to be neutrally bouyant with an al80 with 500 psi in it. This was using 1 pound weights. The big problem is the xxxl wetsuit that I need. I tossed the wetsuit in a bag and tried to sink it.. at 14 lbs it sank.
I am planning to drop 1500-3000 $ on gear if that helps. That not including 4 tanks...still deciding on which tanks I want. I just don't want to buy gear that I wouldn't use...Alot of the manufacturers that I've seen have alot of "bells and whistles". This is more in the jacket style bc's though.
As for dimensions if that helps.. 6'5 280 54 inch chest, 40 waist, 33 inseam (might as well give ya people an idea of the "i'm a big guy" statement.
I am planning to drop 1500-3000 $ on gear if that helps. That not including 4 tanks...still deciding on which tanks I want. I just don't want to buy gear that I wouldn't use...Alot of the manufacturers that I've seen have alot of "bells and whistles". This is more in the jacket style bc's though.
As for dimensions if that helps.. 6'5 280 54 inch chest, 40 waist, 33 inseam (might as well give ya people an idea of the "i'm a big guy" statement.
Hop Devil
Guest
Offroaddive,
You get lots of people self-promoting their own products on this board. You also get lots of testimonials from people that because they own something that its the best thing that available. I've owned three differnt backplates since I started diving, a dive rite, a Fred T, and a Hammerhead. Of the three I rank the Hammerhead as best with the Fred T a very close second. On price and value the Hammerhead wins. Don't overpay for a hunk of metal. People get to wrapped up in the latest and greatest game. Safe diving and enjoy the research, its half the fun.
You get lots of people self-promoting their own products on this board. You also get lots of testimonials from people that because they own something that its the best thing that available. I've owned three differnt backplates since I started diving, a dive rite, a Fred T, and a Hammerhead. Of the three I rank the Hammerhead as best with the Fred T a very close second. On price and value the Hammerhead wins. Don't overpay for a hunk of metal. People get to wrapped up in the latest and greatest game. Safe diving and enjoy the research, its half the fun.
offroaddiver:
You probably won't need any weight if you were diving steel doubles. In fact, you may want an aluminum BP for fresh water to avoid being overweighted... My dive buddy- who is a BIG boy, wears a 7mm FJ WS, SS BP/W, Faber 108s, and is perfect for fresh water. He needs 8 lbs for salt water.
Singles have a place, but I have grown to like my doubles...
Similar threads
