I need a BP&W

[GreenDiverDown]

Offroaddive,
You get lots of people self-promoting their own products on this board. You also get lots of testimonials from people that because they own something that its the best thing that available. I've owned three differnt backplates since I started diving, a dive rite, a Fred T, and a Hammerhead. Of the three I rank the Hammerhead as best with the Fred T a very close second. On price and value the Hammerhead wins. Don't overpay for a hunk of metal. People get to wrapped up in the latest and greatest game. Safe diving and enjoy the research, its half the fun.

I don't know what all that is supposed to mean...except that you like hammerhead plates!

They do have a nice deal right now...100 bucks for a SS plate and a weighted STA. That's a purdy darn good deal. A weighted STA from Oxy or H will usually run about 130 dollars alone! Notice though, that the Hammerhead deal doesn't include the harness or cam bands and, after looking at the Hammerhead harness kit, I think that I would get one some place else or just make my own.

Offroad, let's look at a Hammerhead/Oxycheq solution with your specific needs in mind...

Hammerhead 6# SS plate + 5# weighted Hammerhead STA $100
Oxycheq hog harness $44
(2) Oxycheq deluxe cam bands $30 ea.
Oxycheq Sig series 30# or 45# single wing $340
(2 pair) Halcyon cam band weight pockets $46 pair
Knife and sheath from 5thD $20

Total $656

or...

Halcyon 30# or 40# Eclipse system (A complete system with a standard SS plate, inner bladder/outer shell wing, non-weighted STA, harness and hardware, crotch strap, and cam bands with SS buckles.) It does not include the cam band weight pockets but does include a BP storage pack that usually runs for 70 bucks) for a total of $625. Figure another $92 for the weight pockets and that makes it $717.

Subtract the $70 for the storage pack giving a total of $647 before comparing to the Hammerhead/Oxy combo. Whooh...did I do that right? That's actually a little less for the Halcyon.

Let's try it another way. Let's not subtract out the 70 dollars for the Halcyon storage pack but instead add in a Oxy storage pack to that deal. $656 + $50 = $706. Wow...a 10 dollar savings!

It's hard to compare Tobin's deal to these 'cause his is so different but let's say you get his standard hog set up for $445. Add to that the cost of a Halcyon standard STA and weight pockets...about 192 bucks. That's a total of $637. You could even cut a little off here by using Tobin's included cam bands and buying a $60 Oxy STA. That would make it more like $597. I suppose to make things sorta even you would have to add an Oxy storage pack for another $50 making a Tobin/Oxy/Halcyon combo for $647.

I think that this shows a couple of things...

To build a nicely tuned...and tunable...cold water or heavy weight requirement rig, it will cost a bit more than a warm water or light weight requirement rig. But, with this in mind, the cost is pretty similar no matter which products you choose to use. And...that cost is pretty comparable to what a nice recreational BC would be. And...if someone has tech diving on their mind, this cost is still just a drop in the bucket.

It appears that you need a pretty good amount of weight. I'd suggest that you consider some of the various 'extra heavy options' that I mentioned earlier. I think that you would cheat yourself by putting together a nice rig only to have to strap on a 24# belt.

Edit: I missed the knife/knife pocket in the Halcyon total...add 20 bucks.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

You probably won't need any weight if you were diving steel doubles. In fact, you may want an aluminum BP for fresh water to avoid being overweighted... My dive buddy- who is a BIG boy, wears a 7mm FJ WS, SS BP/W, Faber 108s, and is perfect for fresh water. He needs 8 lbs for salt water.

Singles have a place, but I have grown to like my doubles...

He is a recreational OW diver and he's diving an Al80 single. He's gonna need weight. Steel doubles are not an option for him.

 

[cool_hardware52]

It's hard to compare Tobin's deal to these 'cause his is so different but let's say you get his standard hog set up for $445.

Add to that the cost of a Halcyon standard STA and weight pockets...about 192 bucks. That's a total of $637..

Why add any STA? A STA is completely unneccessary...... Our Complete Rigs are just that, complete, ready to dive, just add tank, regs and diver......

Many here will attest to that.

If you need more weight, bolt on some weight plates, if you want o carry an SMB $2 worth of bungee at teh bottom of the plate does he job.

No need to build a "FrankenStein"

Tobin

 

[Blackwood]

It's hard to compare Tobin's deal to these 'cause his is so different but let's say you get his standard hog set up for $445. Add to that the cost of a Halcyon standard STA and weight pockets...about 192 bucks. That's a total of $637. You could even cut a little off here by using Tobin's included cam bands and buying a $60 Oxy STA. That would make it more like $597. I suppose to make things sorta even you would have to add an Oxy storage pack for another $50 making a Tobin/Oxy/Halcyon combo for $647.

Can I ask why you want to add an STA? DSS plates don't require an STA for singles. That's a nice feature since it keeps the tank in a little closer.

If you want it for the additional weight, Tobin's bolt-on weight plates (http://www.deepseasupply.com/page8.html) provide a better, more streamlined solution at about the same cost.

This isn't the best angle for such an illustration, but I assure you there is no STA. It's neither needed nor wanted.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

Why add any STA? A STA is completely unneccessary...... Our Complete Rigs are just that, complete, ready to dive, just add tank, regs and diver......

Many here will attest to that.

If you need more weight, bolt on some weight plates, if you want o carry an SMB $2 worth of bungee at teh bottom of the plate does he job.

No need to build a "FrankenStein"

Tobin

I know, Tobin. But some of us like to use a STA for the added weight and for the ease of switching cylinders it affords. I was also trying to make your rig more comparable to the others. It's difficult 'cause yours is so unique. I didn't choose to use your weight plates in the above example because I was trying to keep things close to even for comparison sake.

While I understand that your rig is "ready to dive" as is, I would add the weight plates and I would even add the cam band weight pockets when using it for a heavy weight requirement rig. I don't like more than 8# on a belt and even less is preferable. Your rig with the heavy plates is around 14# or so. If one needs a total of thirty pounds that leaves 16 pounds to wear on a belt. A STA or cam band pockets can help with distributing this for comfort and trim. Does that not make sense, Tobin?

Geeze...I just hooked up my new Dell 2005FPW 20.1-inch Wide Aspect Flat Panel....wow...you look different!

 

[GreenDiverDown]

Can I ask why you want to add an STA? DSS plates don't require an STA for singles. That's a nice feature since it keeps the tank in a little closer.

I know...I have one. See my post above.

If you want it for the additional weight, Tobin's bolt-on weight plates (http://www.deepseasupply.com/page8.html) provide a better, more streamlined solution at about the same cost.

I know...I have those, too!

This isn't the best angle for such an illustration, but I assure you there is no STA. It's neither needed nor wanted.

YOU may not want one...but I do.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

O.K.

Tell me how you would distribute 30 pounds of required weight. Anyone?

 

[Blackwood]

I know...I have one. See my post above.
I know...I have those, too!
YOU may not want one...but I do.

I withdraw my post as being redudant. Also, I understand that you aren't me.

I posted it because I ASSumed (wrongly) that you thought an STA to be necessary.

I was also trying to make your rig more comparable to the others. It's difficult 'cause yours is so unique. I didn't choose to use your weight plates in the above example because I was trying to keep things close to even for comparison sake.

Not to be argumentitive, but that doesn't make sense to me.

You should rig everything as you would dive it.

You said you would use Tobin's weight plates, so wouldn't it be prudent to include them in your baseline cost estimates?

 

[countryboy]

Where will you be taking your DM class? I would check with them... Possible student discount / keyman pricing... They may even "require" you work (with students, etc.) with their gear...

That is what I did (Diverite) and I paid nowhere near what is being quoted in this thread.

Food for thought...

 

[cool_hardware52]

Our basic Single rig, Med SS Plate, 30 lbs wing, and Hog harness is $445, the weight Plates add $89. for a total of $534.

If you need more weight my first suggestion is a weight belt.

IMO, the primary benefit of a STA is the ease with which one can convert from Doubles to Singles and back. How many actually do this routinely?

Well I know some do, but most do not. In fact most BP&W's sold today will never see a set of doubles.

How any people go for a dive with all the gear needed to dive both Singles and Doubles on the same trip? i.e. both reg sets, both wings, a weighted STA, and or weight plates, and or whatever other ballast adjustments are made when changing from singles to doubles? And a couple sets of doubles and a couple single tanks?

It could happen I suppose, just not very often, at least in my world. This is part of the reason I mostly dive doubles, it keeps the baggage train to a workable size.

One of the Key benefits of a BP&W is the modular nature of the system, and the relatively low incremental cost of transitioning from singles to doubles, but as a practical matter I don't see many switching back and forth daily. The idea that the decision of whether to dive doubles or singles is made at the tailgate, just before the dive, raises questions about good dive planning, and preperation.

One can of course, with a handful of tools, switch out hoses and convert a set of doubles regs to singles config, and add or subtract weight plates, and change weight belts around etc. etc. I've done it too in a pinch, but if your are going to do that, lacing or unlacing 2 cambands from your plate is the trivial part of the task.


Tobin