Is Dacor dead?

[Scuba]

I was refferring to the older Dacor Regs. Many of the current products have interchangable parts, so even when a product is discontinued, parts are still availible.

Also see my next post.

That's good, in those cases.

Do you permanently discontinue replacement/repair parts production when you discontinue a product? (Assume parts are not used by any current products.)

In such a scenario does Mares/Dacor have a plan to provide for reasonable future product parts needs? Time period, limited parts, demand based, any specific info would be appreciated.

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Yes, DA Aquamaster, I agree with everything you said.

It's bad enough major mistakes were made, it happens. The problem is now I see many promises being made, yet continue to wait for substantive changes to take effect, even in basic matters. Just my opinion.

 

[SwimJim]

Sounds like an MBA striking again.

Jim

 

[scubatoys]

Actually I have had trouble even getting parts for my somewhat older mares stuff, apparently the purge cover with button for a regular axis octo is already obsolete. Either that or my LDS is a fruit cake and cant order it right. Been on back order forever.

Couple of things here... as far as an axis cover... I happen to have a bunch of brand new axis second stages in our shop. Amazing what you find when you clean up! We have the entire second stage, with hose sitting on a close out table for $29.95... and I probably have 7 or 8 of them... So if you want the whole second stage for spare parts, or just a cover, or whatever... just give me a shout.

And Phil already addressed this, but we have parts for viper octos... We just ran out of the octos them selves, but there are more on the way.

 

[Phil Mintz]

[QUOTE=Scuba]That's good, in those cases.

Do you permanently discontinue replacement/repair parts production when you discontinue a product? (Assume parts are not used by any current products.)

In such a scenario does Mares/Dacor have a plan to provide for reasonable future product parts needs? Time period, limited parts, demand based, any specific info would be appreciated.-------

We do not discontinue replacement/repair parts production when a product is discontinued. The length of continued production depends on a few factors, exactly as you state: Time period product was in the market, demand, certain parts are needed more frequently, is there a current part that can be substituted etc. I cannot give you one blanket answer, but I assure you the commitment to service our products is there.

Yes, DA Aquamaster, I agree with everything you said.

DA Aquamaster, per my earlier reply, please let me know what item is sitting on your bench waiting for a part?

It's bad enough major mistakes were made, it happens. The problem is now I see many promises being made, yet continue to wait for substantive changes to take effect, even in basic matters. Just my opinion.[/QUOTE]

I appreciate your opinion, we need feedback as part of our continued improvement process. Are you a dealer? Instructor? Please send me a private note, I would like to contact you to discuss (if you want to). When you say many promises are being made, but are waiting for substantive changes in basic matters: The fact is many positive changes have occurred this year, many dealers have directly told me they see the changes and improvements. So I am curious to understand the basis for this comment. I am not disputing your opinion, but just want to understand were it comes from so we can do even better in the future.

A Happy Thanksgiving to all.

 

[Phil Mintz]

Sounds like an MBA striking again.

Jim

Jim,

I am not sure if this is a compliment or an insult? :05:

Have a Happy Thanksgiving.

Phil

 

[oxyhacker]

Mare policy has always tended to package the HP seat as a separate part, so that might be a more likely explanation than that dealers wanted it that way - come to think of it, most dealers I have talked to hate the Mares policy, feeling that packaging them separately is just a way to charge more.

Are you saying that the Dacor service kits now include the HP seat? Have you physically ascertained this (by looking at an actual kit)? Definitions of "fully service" can vary.

The kit you received is a policy kit, some dealers had wanted kits without seats (do not know why). This has now been changed, we only sell the service kits which contain all the parts required to fully service the reg.

 

[Phil Mintz]

Mare policy has always tended to package the HP seat as a separate part, so that might be a more likely explanation than that dealers wanted it that way - come to think of it, most dealers I have talked to hate the Mares policy, feeling that packaging them separately is just a way to charge more.

Are you saying that the Dacor service kits now include the HP seat? Have you physically ascertained this (by looking at an actual kit)? Definitions of "fully service" can vary.

Packaging a part seperately is not done to make more money, in fact if it were in the kit, the kit would simply cost more and contain a part that is not necessary for every service. Plus under warranty we do not charge for the parts.

I will try to answer your question, but do not kill me if it is not what you are looking for. I am not a technician.

Dacor and Mares regs have interchangable parts, so it applies to both.

1st stage: We use two types of poppets, the flat type should be replaced every other year. Our SCS (patented system) only needs to be replaced when necessary. There may be some terminology diferences between us and other companies. Our HP seat(1st stage) is a fixed metal part and only needs to be replaced when damaged.

A list of parts included in the service kits is availible through authorized dealers and service centers.

Phil

 

[Greg Barlow]

As I have stated before, in past Mares US management did not manage parts well, we have put a new program in place and will have all service parts availible.

[/QUOTE]

Mr. Mintz is absolutely correct in this statement. It is my understanding from speaking to "those in the know" that this shortcoming should soon be a thing of the past. I personally have a nice stock of parts for my Akros and Proton models. My MR12 Akros regs are still my favorite, having served me on many technical dives. I prefer the hose routing of the V16 first stage for my single tank rigs.

One plus to Mares regs is that many of the parts are interchangable with other regs of similar age. For example, the current second stage seats will fit any regs manufactured after the MR12 III series. The HP poppets are all interchangeable with the obvious exception of the SCS series.

Currently, I am conducting a long term test to see how many hours of service the SCS in my V16 Proton provides before it begins to exhibit rising IP.

I've said it many times....Mares regs are robust, simple to use, offer very good performance, and are very easy to service.

As far as Dacor goes...I mentioned in another post that Dacor was knocking on death's door when HTM picked-up the line. Dacor's poor business decisions after the death of Sam Davidson set them on that path. Perhaps GMC should have kept the Oldsmobile line going too.......Anybody seen any new Nash vehicles? How about a Packard? Heck, what about an AMC Gremlin? If you don't continue on with R&D and sound business practices you soon see failure.


Greg Barlow
Former Science Editor for Rodale's Scuba Diving Magazine

 

[Greg Barlow]

1st stage: We use two types of poppets, the flat type should be replaced every other year. Our SCS (patented system) only needs to be replaced when necessary. There may be some terminology diferences between us and other companies.

Mr. Mintz,

I have serviced many Mares regs for the past decade. While I know this is standard policy, I wanted to make a point about this from a technical standpoint. When the first stage cycles, a shallow depression is created in the synthetic material that allows the sealing surfaces to have a "custom fit" where they interface. It is this perfect match that is so critical to a stable intermediate pressure. When the first stage is rebuilt, it is extremely difficult (i.e. unrealistic) to reassemble these parts in the same position. This leads to two concentric circular depressions, which overlap at two points. At these two points, the HP gas will most likely have a small, but significant leak. It usually allows a slowly increasing IP that will often climb around 3-5psi, until the increasing gas pressure allows the poppet to be pressed more firmly into the fixed seat. If this creep exceeds the cracking effort of one of the second stages, then the second stage has an annoying leak.

While I sometimes reuse a HP poppet on my own personal regs, (usually deco or stage bottles), I will not do so with someone elses.

Yes, reusing a poppet does save the customer money, but I pride myself on tuning regs to their highest level. I am not a "parts changer", I am a "craftsman". Sadly, many LDS don't know the difference.

Best Wishes, and thanks for submitting your thoughts on this public forum.

Greg Barlow
Former Science Editor for Rodale's Scuba Diving Magazine

 

[Marek K]

Wow, this is actually staying civil and constructive! Hope it stays that way...

Thanks, Larry for your reassurance about the Dacor Viper parts.

And welcome back, Phil. It's been said before, but we do appreciate having access to you here.

--Marek