Is it worth getting your DM certification for the education?

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I completed Master Scuba Diver requirements just under one year from getting my OW certification. I looked at is a goal. Since I was paying for the speciality courses anyway, the additional cost was to complete Rescue Diver, which is good to have anyway.

Right after completing MSD, I signed up for DM with a local dive shop. I thought it would be fun and give me the opportunity to lead trips and get free accomodation/meals. Ha! I completed all the classroom work and passed the written tests, but I knew I would have to work really hard to get good enough scores on the swim tests to pass. There is NO sliding scale for being female or older (I was 57 at the time), the times are the same. If I had known this at the beginning, I probably would not have paid the $400+ course fee and the additional several hundred dollars for course books and the e-dive planner. I arranged to do the internship and complete the swim tests with a dive shop in Kaui, since I planned to be there for 3 weeks. I did about a week of the internship with one instructor before the instructor who had originally certified me returned from leave. He asked me why I wanted to be a DM, and when I said for something to do in retirement, he pointed out that washing pee out of wetsuits and hauling tanks was not what he wanted to do in retirement. Also, that if you're only doing it part time, you'll just be doing the scut work for the instructors. Another instructor mentioned the annual cost to renew and insurance. Unless you're doing it full time (or, at least, on a regular basis), you won't recoup your costs. So I dropped out and spent the rest of my vacation enjoying my dives. Yes, the education was helpful, but as others have pointed out, you could just read the books and do the exercises. I've returned to the same dive shop every year since, and appreciate how hard the DMs work on the boat, loading gear, setting up, changing tanks, etc., not to mention the challenge of herding cats in the water. I can just relax on my dives, but I'm more aware of the possibilities for things to go wrong, conscious of what other divers are doing (especially when they're not following dive procedures or dive etiquette), but I also got a lot of this from the rescue diver training. In sum, I wouldn't do DM unless you plan to become and professional and use it to get to instructor training. I don't think MSD is a waste, but a certificate of accomplishment.
 
Like other suggested, if you want to improve persoanl diving skills, ie, buoyancy control, trim, ascent, gas sharing, situational awareness, .... basically all the basic skills, take GUE fundie or similar type of class. YOu will become a better diver, safer teammate after it.
 
I completed Master Scuba Diver requirements just under one year from getting my OW certification. I looked at is a goal. Since I was paying for the speciality courses anyway, the additional cost was to complete Rescue Diver, which is good to have anyway.

Right after completing MSD, I signed up for DM with a local dive shop. I thought it would be fun and give me the opportunity to lead trips and get free accomodation/meals. Ha! I completed all the classroom work and passed the written tests, but I knew I would have to work really hard to get good enough scores on the swim tests to pass. There is NO sliding scale for being female or older (I was 57 at the time), the times are the same. If I had known this at the beginning, I probably would not have paid the $400+ course fee and the additional several hundred dollars for course books and the e-dive planner. I arranged to do the internship and complete the swim tests with a dive shop in Kaui, since I planned to be there for 3 weeks. I did about a week of the internship with one instructor before the instructor who had originally certified me returned from leave. He asked me why I wanted to be a DM, and when I said for something to do in retirement, he pointed out that washing pee out of wetsuits and hauling tanks was not what he wanted to do in retirement. Also, that if you're only doing it part time, you'll just be doing the scut work for the instructors. Another instructor mentioned the annual cost to renew and insurance. Unless you're doing it full time (or, at least, on a regular basis), you won't recoup your costs. So I dropped out and spent the rest of my vacation enjoying my dives. Yes, the education was helpful, but as others have pointed out, you could just read the books and do the exercises. I've returned to the same dive shop every year since, and appreciate how hard the DMs work on the boat, loading gear, setting up, changing tanks, etc., not to mention the challenge of herding cats in the water. I can just relax on my dives, but I'm more aware of the possibilities for things to go wrong, conscious of what other divers are doing (especially when they're not following dive procedures or dive etiquette), but I also got a lot of this from the rescue diver training. In sum, I wouldn't do DM unless you plan to become and professional and use it to get to instructor training. I don't think MSD is a waste, but a certificate of accomplishment.

I agree with everything except about recovering the cost of membership/insurance. I just got DM but have been away, hoping to do some DMing in the Fall. It would seem that if I just did 2 OW classes I would recover those costs and a little more. We're still talking pennies, but I think it would be worth it if you enjoy it. Guess it depends on the shop.
 
I would think that even working as a part-time DM in retirement, earning nothing and "washing pee out of wetsuits and hauling tanks," the real benefit would be getting to dive for free. Beats working as a Wal-Mart Greeter and would help keep you in good physical shape. That said, if I were to go for DM, I'd want to go all the way and become an instructor, as I think I'd enjoy teaching as a semi-retirement gig.
 
I would think that even working as a part-time DM in retirement, earning nothing and "washing pee out of wetsuits and hauling tanks," the real benefit would be getting to dive for free. Beats working as a Wal-Mart Greeter and would help keep you in good physical shape. That said, if I were to go for DM, I'd want to go all the way and become an instructor, as I think I'd enjoy teaching as a semi-retirement gig.

I would only go for Instructor if we had serious financial problems--(I like the idea of being an assistant after 19 years teaching as a Band Instructor, being the ultimate guy in charge). Not that Instructors make all that much. And better than Walmart for sure. But I don't consider being a DM as getting to dive for free. Though we will get free charters, we will be having the responsibilities of being a DM. That's not "diving for free". DMs get $200 per OW class at our shop. It's not a lot per hour, but it's a recognition that you are a dive pro. Free air will be a nice plus, plus the shop discounts. And this covers the PADI fees. At our shop, hauling tanks, yes. Washing out pee--haven't seen it.
 
TH how many students in an OW class at your shop?

We are all swimming in pee every time we dive, fish keep peeing in the water!


I just finished my DM stuff and I without a doubt think it was worth it just for what I learned. Now there is more to it than that. I sure hope I get to work and do classes and trips but if I don't do one I still think it was more than worth it. I learned a ton about new divers, experinced divers, about teaching, about skills and knowledge and about diving as a whole.
 
I live and have a full time job in Hawaii so I can't do the professional option (no matter how much I wish I could). I'm considering trying to find a place (I have a 1st choice) that will let me work towards my DM cert so that I can get the education that will help make me a better diver. I think learning how to teach or assist teaching others how to dive will help make me better diver too. Is the price/effort worth it? Should I just dive and focus on gaining more experience or does gaining more education while I dive make sense too?

Master Diver seems like a wast of $$$ doesn't do much for me other than assure I learn some other specialties that may or may not be of real value to me as a diver...

Thoughts, opinions?

Looks like everything that should have been said was said so I'll just share my personal experience.

I was in the same crossroads as you and due to some stroke of luck, was able to take 3 course kinda simultaneously; namely the UTD Essentials (kinda similar to GUE Fundies); NAUI MSD and PADI DM.

As of writing, I have not completed any of those courses because I wanted to take it slow and enjoy the process rather then rush. With the UTD class, you cannot rush it anyway - if you sucks, you fail its as simple as that. Having the experience of this 3 courses gives me a good perspective I think so here goes my 2psi.

UTD Essentials is the course that REALLY improves my skills as a diver. The course basically gives me a direction to practice, i.e. it shows where my potential is but also exposes all my flaws. Little things you never thought about becomes apparent. I am also taught some "alternative" dive practices that may contradicts mainstream agencies; however the scary part is that they actually make sense. I also learn how to dive without a computer using Min Deco.

NAUI MSD provides a solid education in academics. Depending on who your instructor is, you will learn some skills related to diving but not diving-related, e.g. how to operate a boat etc. I was lucky that I could do a trade-off with my shop so I kind of got the course for free. Of course there will be dives involved but I have not done that part yet so I cannot comment further. From what other NAUI MSD has told me, this is probably one of the best course in recreational diving, and so far I agree.

PADI DM teaches me pay more attention to the other divers around me, to anticipate their needs and prevent any potential problems before they happens. I became the bridge between the beginners and the all-imposing instructor and in some ways fill in the role of a mentor assuring them that they will be ok and I will be looking out for them. The academics are not hard compared to the NAUI MSD but can be challenging to some. Like all others say, its a leadership course. With regards to "Demonstration Quality" skills, you are probably better off with either GUE or UTD in my opinion. This will be a worthwhile course to take if you are interested in looking after the welfare of other divers.

So in short, all 3 courses will help you grow as a diver, but the question is, which aspect do you want to develop? Hope the above helps.
 
As of writing, I have not completed any of those courses because I wanted to take it slow and enjoy the process rather then rush. With the UTD class, you cannot rush it anyway - if you sucks, you fail its as simple as that. Having the experience of this 3 courses gives me a good perspective I think so here goes my 2psi.

UTD Essentials is the course that REALLY improves my skills as a diver. The course basically gives me a direction to practice, i.e. it shows where my potential is but also exposes all my flaws. Little things you never thought about becomes apparent. I am also taught some "alternative" dive practices that may contradicts mainstream agencies; however the scary part is that they actually make sense. I also learn how to dive without a computer using Min Deco.

You can NOT fail UTD essential. It is not an evaluated course. So you take the class, you learn as much as you can, and done. Also why haven't you finished? I am no UTD expert here, as far as I understand essential is one of the shorter courses, not the long course that they break up into different weekends.

As for diving without computer, let's not confuse the non UTD/GUE diver, it is not because you do mini deco ascent profile. It is because you plan the dive using table and sticking to the plan. Mini deco is just a UTD/GUE version, a more conservative way of doing safety stops.
 
You can NOT fail UTD essential. It is not an evaluated course. So you take the class, you learn as much as you can, and done. Also why haven't you finished? I am no UTD expert here, as far as I understand essential is one of the shorter courses, not the long course that they break up into different weekends.

As for diving without computer, let's not confuse the non UTD/GUE diver, it is not because you do mini deco ascent profile. It is because you plan the dive using table and sticking to the plan. Mini deco is just a UTD/GUE version, a more conservative way of doing safety stops.

I have not finished because I am not doing it 4 days back to back like most people. Let's just say we have some arrangements made and it is not something I want to discuss in a public forum.

Diving a table and sticking to a plan, using a conservative method of safety stops = no computer. They all relates to one another.
 
I too live in Hawaii, and I completed the DM course in 1995. I think alot of people here have the right idea. If you are going to work in a dive shop, or as a "certified assistant" then DM is the way to go. If you just love diving, and want to become a better all around diver, then take some of the courses mentioned here, and dive, dive, dive! You'll find that you learn alot from other divers, and from diving in different dive sites and situations.
 
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