Just another question I'm hoping someone would be kind enough to answer = )

[Don Burke]

This is from John's original message.

moogster once bubbled...
The idea is to simulate diving.

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I've looked around for about half a year from time to time, searching without hope for a cheap solution.

snip

I even recently searched this board to no real avail about a similar problem/answer.

snip

About the Snuba and Hookah devices, it seems like they cost awfully a lot for just a pump and tubes. I was wondering how hard it would be to create such a device for two people, from just an air compressor. Are there things that I may not be thinking about that may affect my progress?

So here we are.

1. This isn't simulating diving. It _is_ diving.

2. The half year John has spent fiddling was enough time to get certified.

3. The reason he didn't find an answer is that there isn't a safe one.

4. Here is the scary part. I missed it at first. The device is for two people. We are talking about a pool toy. John wants a device anyone, apparently with no training or supervision at all, can use to breathe compressed air at depths up to ten feet.

We aren't talking Darwin awards here. We are talking about dancing with negligent homicide/manslaughter/wrongful death.

Yikes!!

xxxx
Edited to fix a glaring typo.

 

[DandyDon]

All in all, a really bad idea...

Theere's also the quality of air supply. If he's thinking about a small, cheap like one would use to inflate an auto tire, he'll be sucking contaminated air, won't he?

Then there's the need of regulators. Just going to suck on the end of a " piece of hosing (like a bit garden hose pipe - no longer that 6ft) and breathe in through your mouth (using the hose) and out through your nose while sitting in in the shallow end (you might need to wear some weights to help you stay sitting on the bottom - only 4 pounds or so)..... just make sure if you come up - you breathe out and don't hold your breath."

However, I do understand his approach, to an entent. When I was a kid, and my Dad wanted more mounted cowhands but without the expense of more horse, he tried putting me on a Shetland Pony, then a Mule. Both were complete failures, and dangerous - just not as dangerous as what he has in mind!

 

[WJL]

bermudaskink once bubbled...
If you really want to do it....

You could use a (clean!) piece of hosing (like a bit garden hose pipe - no longer that 6ft) and breathe in through your mouth (using the hose) and out through your nose while sitting in in the shallow end (you might need to wear some weights to help you stay sitting on the bottom - only 4 pounds or so).....

I'm thinking this idea could get you killed.

I read somewhere once that your lungs and diaphram can't generate enough force to breathe through a tube once you're more than a foot or two below the surface. You have to have the air pressurized for you to breathe it successfully. Regulating the pressure for the depth is not a trivial problem. This is why hookah systems are not cheap.

 

[jonnythan]

Everyone is absolutely right. You don't know what you don't know.

Something no one else has really mentioned was the "refilling" idea. You'd need a 3000 psi high grade breathable air compressor to refill them, and they will set you back several thousand dollars. No dive shop will fill a spare air for you without a certification card.

Take a certification course. They're really not that expensive.

You ask "How is one to breathe underwater in a pool, for extended periods of time. If that were the only goal, how would that be achieved."

That's called SCUBA diving. Even at 10 feet, it's still very very much SCUBA diving.

In other words, the answer to your question is "if that's your goal, get SCUBA certified."

Period.

 

[bermudaskink]

OK - my bad.

Maybe change it to having your head in about 2feet of water....rather than 4 ft. But there's nothing wrong with experimenting with this idea and seeing how hard it is to breathe off the hose.

This dude only wants to have his head under water for pete's sake... so a little bit longer than a snorkel would do the trick.

Trying it out wont kill him!

The way some people talk on this board....I wonder how they manage to even cross the road without breaking into a cold sweat!

SCUBA was invented by people who had the guts to try things out. If they had listened to people like you, we wouldn't be donning all our gear and going under at all!:mean:

 

[WJL]

bermudaskink once bubbled...
OK - my bad.

This dude only wants to have his head under water for pete's sake... so a little bit longer than a snorkel would do the trick.

Well guy, that's not what he said. He was asking about going down 10 feet. And that's not what you said. You said try a 6 foot hose.

Others before you have tried this breathing through a garden hose experiment. It was uniformly unsuccessful if the breather was deeper than a foot or two.

However in the interests of science and to demonstrate your bold nature, why don't you go out and give your idea a try? I'm sure you won't let a such silly thing as physics stand in the way of proving your point. You can join the ranks of the pioneers who blazed the trail for scuba diviers everywhere. Of course some of them were willing to avoid making the mistakes that killed their predecessors. I know you will think them gutless for that. Show us all that you are made of sterner stuff!

Maybe after the experiment you can make a resolution not to spout advice to strangers on subjects about which you know nothing.

 

[scywin]

If what you want to get is an introduction to the experience of diving in a pool, then the suggestion of a certification course is perfect. Most of the in the water portion of the course is taught in a pool. The final certification dives are done in open water, but you spend a lot of time with scuba gear in a pool before you do that.

As far as keeping the cost down, which seems to be a consideration, you don't need to buy a lot of gear for the class. A typical class requires that you have a mask, snorkel and fins, but supplies the expensive regulators, BC, etc. You only need to buy those if you decide to contiinue with scuba after the class.

It seems to me the class is the way to get what you want, i.e. an introduction to diving in a pool setting for not too much money.

 

[jonnythan]

bermudaskink once bubbled...
SCUBA was invented by people who had the guts to try things out. If they had listened to people like you, we wouldn't be donning all our gear and going under at all!:mean:

Yeah, and those people never hurt themselves or died.

The people who really invented the sport weren't out to answer "what's the least amount of information I need to breathe underwater for a few minutes?"

 

[PhotoTJ]

Discover Scuba is sometimes offered for free, this will get you exactly what you want, I think. You get in a pool with an instructor, full gear, and get a mini class and dive.

Some dive centers offer it as a loss leader, and it seem to get a lot of divers.

 

[bermudaskink]

I said "4 ft down.... with a 6 ft hose" to give you some extra hose to compensate for slight bending for your position in the water and arching it towards your mouth etc...

And then I corrected myself and reduced the suggested depth to 2ft.

So what is your problem dude?

I am sure the dude who wants the advice doesn't care if he is breathing in 10ft of water or 2ft he just wants to see what it's like. At least that's the impression I got. Read the post again. He says he has a 10ft pool. He didn't say he had to be at that depth.

Nobody is going to endanger themselves from following my suggestion unless they are really stupid and stay under water when they can't breathe.

And please stop putting words in my mouth.

I didn't say it was an original idea either. I know people have tried it before.

And yes I know a lot of folks did die during the modifications of primitive diving bells and suits etc. But nobody (with a fully functioning brain) accidentally died while sitting in 4 ft of water with a hose in their mouth!

To breathe underwater through a narrow tube a person has to displace a volume of water equal to the volume of air they need to breathe in. I made a mistake of saying that this was possible at 4ft. I admitted I was wrong.

I am sure had this not been corrected the guy could have figured it out himself. Who would sit there with a hose in their mouth and try to breathe when it was obviously so laborious that their lungs became damaged??

In my last post I was never trying to argue your point or the laws of physics. I stated originally, after all that "at greater depths it is too hard to breathe". I have read about early diving equipment and thought I had remembered correctly at what depth it becomes too hard to breathe air from the surface. But I was wrong as you pointed out and I apologised. I didn't deserve your last post at all.

;-0

So please take your pointless comments and stick them where the sun don't shine! eace:

It would be nice if folk like you who reply to threads could be a little more constructive and positive, not to mention POLITE! Being aggressive and patronising and trying to humiliate people for their suggestions and or opinions doesn't achieve anything at all.

So. Less of the Lip!

That said some of the stuff here is really cool, so I'm sticking around.