LDS loyalty?

[LI Diver]

Then theres my solution. There are 3 dive shops within 10 miles of my house and 1 about 25 miles away.One of the closer ones has a very small selection,no pool and the staff is non existant or non helpful so they are out. One of the others has a great selection a knowledgable and helpful staff but like a lot of shops opens late in the day. They have a pool but seem to use it strictly for classes and never offered it for equipment or weighting dives. The 3rd shop opens early has a decent selection and is very generous with their pool. Their staff is very eager and goes out of their way to help.
I basically split my purchases between the last two. The said purchases have been substantial since A:being a newbie and needing everything and B: my son got certified with me so everything I buy is in duplicate. Also decisions like: I probably would have waited to purchase a hyperstretch 5mm full suit(already owning a 3mm shorty and 3mm full) but after the great service and use of the pool I felt what the heck buy it now I'm only going to get it eventually.
So to summarize... Just pick a couple of the better shops in your area and spend twice as much money as the average person. Then if niether shop is willing to order in something that you just gotta have then just order the stupid thing on the internet and stop whining!!

 

[O'Malley]

Although I regularly buy gear from two, three dive shops as determined by my equipment needs, I do remain loyal to one particular dive shop for certifications.

 

[Vtdiver2]

How many dive shops are truly and sincerely concerned about anyone as a diver? My experience has been that most shops are only concerned about my wallet.

MY LDS is concerned about their divers. I have witnessed, on more than one occasion, adjustments to equipment, free of charge. I've also seen them tell a diver to bring in their equipment, bought elsewhere, and help them make adjustments to it that make it fit better, or perform better. My LDS tries to build a dive community, by hosting a board similar to SB, where we set up dives, discuss trips or whatever. Bottomline is, not all LDSs are the Evil Empire like so many of you try to make them out to be.

.....I can't think of any other type of business that is like this. Like TSandM, this phenomena is puzzling to me as well.

Personally, I use the same garage for all my cars. I did business with the guy with my Honda, and when I traded it and got my Jeep, stayed with him. Why?? I can trust him. Do you really go to a different shop everytime you need an oil change?
I've also had the same guy servicing my boiler for years, use the same pool guy year after year, and have the same primary physician and dentist. I guess I'm just strange that way. They treat me well, I trust them, and in return, I show them loyalty. I don't believe my LDS is expecting anything different.
C-Dawg

 

[Vtdiver2]

....In other words they want you to only buy their gear, go on their trips and if you do anything outside of this you will be shunned and treated like the scum you are. Shops want followers... shops want to brainwash you... much like many other cults. They want you to give them your money... no... they expect you to give them your money... and in large sums.

Sorry you've had bad luck in Baltimore, but my LDS is nothing like what you describe. There are 2 shops in my area, and I've seen my LDS call the other and see if they had a certain wetsuit size when they couldn't fit someone. That doesn't sound like brainwashing or shunning. I've also been on a charter thru my LDs and been bouyed on a wreck. When a charter from the other shop came up to see how long we were going to be, my LDS offered to let them moor to our boat, as only one boat can moor to the wreck bouy. They also sent my DACOR reg to the other shop for me when I brought my gear in for service. They honestly don't seem to be trying to create an us vs them thing. It honestly feels like being part of a dive family.
Come up to Vt and we'll go diving. I'll show you what I mean.
C-Dawg

 

[Penopolypants]

As a new diver, it is hearting to hear that there are shops out there that truly deserve loyalty through excellent service and personality, not guilt trips and such. I have been in both types of shops, and it is good to know that the bad shops don't seem to outweigh the good.

It does appear, however, that many shops and divers in this industry are very vocal about what you should or shouldn't do, or should or shouldn't go. I think the point of the OP was to figure out WHY there is so much polarization in the diving industry.

(Please note that I am NOT referring to ALL divers or shops. Er….maybe just the really vocal ones. )

So, why do certain shops seem to demand loyalty from their customers? Why do so many shops make you feel guilty for purchasing elsewhere? Why do so many shops bash other shops?

Why the Us vs. Them mentality that appears to permeate this industry? This Shop vs. That Shop, This Brand vs. That Brand, LDS vs. Online, Non-DIR vs. DIR, etc.

Clearly this a sport that garners a significant amount of passion and calls for a certain stubbornness - why else would we dive? It's not exactly a natural activity.

Is it our innate passion that drives us to the sport that also drives us to delineate our likes and dislikes with such ferociousness?

Or is that this is a relatively small community, with a relatively small number of manufactures, so that it is like living in a small town? Everybody knows everybody, and wants to know everybody's business, and somehow feels that they are entitled to stick their nose in it?

It would never occur to me to change my coat that I bought in Boutique A because I was walking into Boutique B because the owner might get upset, but this has occurred to me with dive gear. This is the only industry that I know of that is like that. My guesses are written above, and I am curious as to other people's guesses as to why.

 

[friscuba]

When I was a ski instructor, many ski manufacturers would provide "pro" pricing to get us on their skiis, recognizing that our students would tend to base their buying decisions in part on what equipment the instructors were on. I see this as a valid marketing strategy. However, as an instructor, I thought it was important to help my students decide what was best for <i>them</i>, which might or might not be the stuff I was skiing on. I saw that as a valid instruction philosophy.

As a new diver, I thought it was pretty amusing for my instructors to be telling me that the BCDs they were diving with (in this case Zeagle Rangers) wouldn't be nearly as good as the two back inflate BCDs that the dive shop happened to carry. In fact, one instructor said, he'd be switching to the shop brand as soon as he got the money together. This was pretty blatant to me - the shop was obviously applying pressure to their staff to dive and sell the shop gear, regardless of customer need.

Stores that treat me right get my business - this applies to simple things like car repair, or recreational equipment such as skiis, guns, or scuba. This isn't a mutually exclusive deal - multiple shops can treat me right, and the one that gets my business is the one with the stuff in stock at the right price. With internet availability of most products, I think in-store inventory is important. I don't need a store to "order it for me." I can order stuff myself, for less than a store can, so I don't think that's a big selling point for an LDS. If a store happens to sponsor a lot of fun dives and I start to partake in them, then it will seem natural and convenient to buy goodies from them.

Well, you never know. I know people who own Rangers that love them, I know people who own Rangers who dislike them, I know people who've gone to Seaquest Black Diamonds or other back inflate BCDs from a Ranger and love the change, doesn't make it a bad BCD - might not be so blatant as you think, everyone's got different tastes.

 

[HilaryRN71]

i so agree with the post about this industy being so polarized. I wonder why that is? I live in a small desert city with one LDS. I'm loyal to the extent that I think they are a great shop and if I need something I go there. However, I am picky on gear and they don't carry some of the brands that I want. I buy weights, weight bag, gear bag, gear maintenence, (and those add up) etc but I don't feel guilty going elsewhere when I want something they don't have. I have purchased 2 wetsuits and a BC there, so I guess I split it up about half and half. But they genuinely seem to care about the divers in the community, and the instruction was great. My daughter was certified thru their shop and I always felt very safe because of their conscience attitude. I appreciate that they are there, and want to support them to keep them in business. But they seem to understand their limitations. The DIR guys in the community all shop there for what they can but the LDS knows they go elsewhere for their specific DIR and tech gear. They don't seem to mind.

But why is everyone so opinionated in this sport?? the more I dive the more opinionated I get! Maybe it's something in the compressed air...

 

[TASea]

I have yet to be in a dive shop that has created a "community." I have been in many that were trying to create a "Community," unfortunately they weren't communities I'd want to live in. More like communists... In other words they want you to only buy their gear, go on their trips and if you do anything outside of this you will be shunned and treated like the scum you are. Shops want followers... shops want to brainwash you... much like many other cults. They want you to give them your money... no... they expect you to give them your money... and in large sums.

This may sound extreme... but it is not such a stretch from the truth. Around here, if you do business with one shop... then another... word gets out... and next thing you know you're treated differently. You're seen as the scum of the earth. I hope that this doesn't happen everywhere... but it sure does in Baltimore, MD...

Unfortunately that doesn't only happen in Baltimore. You just described the treatment I've been getting from my two LDS's. I recently got OW certified and bought a full set of gear (except tank) from LDS "A". I went ahead and signed up for AOW with LDS "B", because I thought LDS "A" did a poor job teaching my OW course. I noted the LDS "B" owner seemed irritated I hadn't purchased my gear from him. I didn't realize I had crossed an invisible line.

Then I committed the unforgivable sin - I purchased a tank off the internet. Now both LDS's have let me know in no uncertain terms I'm simply the bad guy, and it will be my personal fault when their shops fold up, which is going to happen any day now, and no one will be able to get air fills. The LDS owner I bought all the gear from actually accused me of "probably shopping at Home Depot instead of supporting the local Ace Hardware" (no I'm not making that up). Surreal. All this after I dropped close to $3k in their shops.

I'd love to tell them both to pack sand, but I need at least one shop to provide air, and eventually the gear I bought will need service. I really enjoy diving (what little I've done), but this treatment is making me regret getting involved with it at all. Anyway, I just needed to get this off my chest. In a way it's a relief to know it's not just me, but then again I'm sorry anyone else is having to put up with this stuff. And if you're one of the folks who's had nothing but good experiences with your LDS - I envy you.

 

[kalvyn]

Bottomline is, not all LDSs are the Evil Empire like so many of you try to make them out to be.

I agree 100% on this, and this wasn't my intent posting this thread. I just thought it was curious why people were loyal to an LDS, and what folks thoughts were on LDS's that have that expectation of their customers.

I know a guy here locally that was worried about taking a class from NWGratefulDiver a while ago, because Bob didn't teach at the shop this guy was certified at. I just find that sort of thinking strange. If I want what someone is offering, and I think it's a good deal I jump on it. I won't settle for a different or another perhaps less-desired option just because of "brand loyalty". Perhaps I'm different in this regard?

I trust them, and in return, I show them loyalty.

Actually, I do go to a different shop almost every time to get my oil changed. Whichever Jiffy Lube is closest to me at the time I hit 3K miles since the last change.

I actually agree with you on a professional services provider like a dentist, doctor or mechanic. For example, I only let one guy touch my regs to service them. Also, my wife and I pass at least two other grocery stores on the way to Fred Meyers to do our grocery shopping.

On the other hand, if Freddy's doesn't have what I'm looking for I don't feel guilty stopping at Top Foods to get it. Also, the checkout person at Freddy's doesn't berate us for buying what we needed at Top instead of settling for an inferior option in their store. It's this sort of behavior and thinking that puzzles me when it comes to an LDS and LDS customers, and why I asked my initial questions.

Jimmie

 

[Tom Smedley]

I'd love to tell them both to pack sand, but I need at least one shop to provide air, and eventually the gear I bought will need service.

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!