LDS vs. INTERNET

[DA Aquamaster]

I respectfully have to disagree that internet stores do not have the overhead that the LDS has because the most reputable internet stores (Scubatoys, Dive Sports, Divers Supply, ect..) are an LDS in their own local market and carry the same overhead and then some. These guys are also authourized dealers for everything they sell. I just wish I had one of them as my LDS.

Well...if recent history is any indicator, a couple of the dealers you mention have lost dealerships due to internet sales that violated dealer agreements.

I am not saying I do not disagree with what they tried to do as I think most shops would love to sell over the phone, internet, etc at discount prices to improve their volume and cash flow. But the truth is that most major equipment makers will not allow brick and mortar shops to do it. So don't blame the LDS.

And with regard to Leisure-Pro the statement is exactly true, LP has to maintain a website, a warehouse, a phone/order center and shipping staff, but does not need to invest the same money in sales and overhead expenses per dollar of sales revenue as a brick and mortar dive shop and their volume of sales is huge compared to any LDS or even chain of LDS's.

 

[jfoster33702]

I think its a part of future commerce. The fact that some manufacturers refuse to change is not going to stop it. It's going to be THOSE manufacturers that suffer in the end, as more and more products are offered by companies who allow online sales. Geez...come into the 90s already.

 

[sasscuba]

LDS for tank filling and misc. items. All my new gear I have bought over the internet and saved $$$$.

 

[jpsexton]

Well...if recent history is any indicator, a couple of the dealers you mention have lost dealerships due to internet sales that violated dealer agreements.

This is true but SP and AL are still hoping the internet will go away. Scubatoys did'nt miss a beat and I'm sure Phil will be fine as well.

I am not saying I do not disagree with what they tried to do as I think most shops would love to sell over the phone, internet, etc at discount prices to improve their volume and cash flow. But the truth is that most major equipment makers will not allow brick and mortar shops to do it. So don't blame the LDS.

I'm not blaming the LDS, I support my local market as much as I can. I just expect them to be competative.

And with regard to Leisure-Pro the statement is exactly true, LP has to maintain a website, a warehouse, a phone/order center and shipping staff, but does not need to invest the same money in sales and overhead expenses per dollar of sales revenue as a brick and mortar dive shop and their volume of sales is huge compared to any LDS or even chain of LDS's.

LP has their place, they keep the market competative. The thing people must consider when buying from them though is that they are not authourized and anything bought from them should be considered the same as used when it comes to factory warranty. Thats fine I guess if you save enough money but I would rather buy from an authourized dealer.

 

[Phreak]

In Seattle there are someting like 2 dozen dive centers. And then there are many more on-line sites. Lots of options.

So - my .02 worth is is - if there is annual maintenance, read: reg, octo, bc's or even computers - or just lots of moving parts just buy it at LDS. Pay the extra $. It's sooooo worth it in the long term.

There are more moving parts in a BCD than in a regulator. Think about that one. get your BC serviced once a year for all the crud/salt getting accumulated inside that bladder and at the valves/o-rings.

If I can buy fins or a mask or something small online - not too many parts moving w/ my fins- I might buy those online. Scubapro split fins for $113.00 online vs $198.00 at LDS is a no-brainer.

But a tank that needs annual inspection? Would I buy online and then take it to LDS for the annual viz inspection or the hydro? Maybe... And maybe not.

The post is a good one...but recognize we are all online reading this...this forum is an INTERNET FORUM so we might all be a little more than biased at preferring on-line stuff...right?

Can I get continuing education online? Nope. Rescue? O2 provider? Divemaster classes online? Fughettabout it. Can I understand the inside of my particular reg online? Nope. I crave more knowledge than that, so I usually go to LDS and listen and learn. The guys in the service department are really sharp! The dive instructors are outstanding. It's just something I can't get even here at scubaboard.com.

Ok, off the soapbox now.

 

[scubapro50]

One thing we over look is that if you purchase from your LDS you leave with the item that day. Ordering over the internet may be cheap (remember to add the shipping and sales tax if you live in the same state) but it can takes weeks to get your merchandise. Both SCUBATOYS and LeausrePro are good about getting your merchancise out quickly but with some other internet shops I have waited over a month to receive what I ordered.

 

[Stu S.]

LP got ahold of Cressi USA to help me quickly. I got a regular Cressi warranty with my computer. My computer had an interesting problem. The log function would not add correctly on dives made off Boynton Beach, FL. All other locations OK. I got first-class treatment from LP on this. The new Archimede 2 computer should arrive tomorrow.

LP prices helped me to return to diving after a number of years off. That means more money to the local shop, too.

 

[Brandon]

Can I understand the inside of my particular reg online? Nope.

You're not looking in the right place then.

You can learn how to service your regulators with information available online, provided you have common sense and good mechanical ability.

Tell your LDS that and watch their face, heheheh.

-Brandon.

 

[shark.byte.usa]

One thing we over look is that if you purchase from your LDS you leave with the item that day. Ordering over the internet may be cheap (remember to add the shipping and sales tax if you live in the same state) but it can takes weeks to get your merchandise. Both SCUBATOYS and LeausrePro are good about getting your merchancise out quickly but with some other internet shops I have waited over a month to receive what I ordered.

Man I would never wait that long for dive gear or otherwise, if their site doesn't say in-stock I don't order, if I get a out of stock notice after I order, I cancel the order, if my card's already been charged, I wait a couple days and cancel with card company. I'll take my business elsewhere LDS or online. That's just crazy!

Here's a post to a diving list I made not a week ago, that basically sums up my opinion [Edited for SB]

...
I feel for the small business (LDS) owners, just like I feel for the
IT professionals whose jobs are being outsourced to India, the
manufacturing laborers whose jobs have gone to Mexico, heck even the
corporate lawyers are losing their jobs to cheaper labor overseas.
Life's tough all over.

I'm an instant gratification type of guy, if I'm spending money I'd
love to have the item in my hot little hand immediately not wait for
5-7 day UPS ground, yet I am a single father on a budget and can't
justify spending an additional 20-30% markup + sales tax for the same
exact product I can buy online from an authorized dealer. I'd love to
but I can't. At least make an attempt, give me something to think
about.

If your an LDS owner or affiliated with one that does work with your
customers on price, great, wonderful, stupendous! I'd sing your
praises for all to hear, ... , however my experience
has been the opposite, when I've inquired, politely, I've been made to
feel like I was stealing candy from their kids and have felt unwelcome
in each subsequent return to the shop(s), eventually I don't go back.
I understand the frustration on their part, but do they understand
mine, it's a two way street, I got mouths to feed too.

I wish it wasn't all about money, but sometimes it is and it's just
unavoidable. If people are looking online for equipment, I'd gather
the vast majority are looking for a deal for financial reasons, they
don't want to stick it to their LDS, if they could walk into their LDS
and buy what they wanted regardless of price they would, I know I
would.

I agree about the life support equipment (bc, regs, computer),
unfortunately these items are normally the ones with highest cost &
markup and the difference in prices between the LDS and online are
very hard to ignore.

...

Customers:

- Support your local dive shop/economy, give them the first shot at
your business, what do you have to lose.
- If your considering shopping online do your homework, there are
reputable dot coms, don't let anyone tell you any different. You'll
always be able to get an airfill.

LDS's:

- Respect your customers position, we live in an online age, it's not
going away.
- Quit the scare tactics, the "voided warranties" and "no air fills"
doom and gloom messages. It just turns people off.
- If you have a brick and mortar store and don't do any ecommerce
your may be missing the boat, why wouldn't you sell the products your not
forbidden to sell online.

I'm a firm believer that the manufacturers who shun the internet will eventually realize their blunder and conform and allow their dealers to peddle their products on the web.

 

[eng1ne1]

What gives? Why such a big price difference in equipment. What does everyone else do? I need my LDS to fill tanks etc. so I dont want to piss them off but lets get real some of the price differences are up to 25% less via internet. Thats a big chunk if your spending 1500 - 2000 dollars. Anyway I would like to here your 2 bits about this subject.

Friscospices-
I think what you need to keep in mind is that your LDS will be an authorized dealer for the products that they carry. I have found that about half of the online dive suppliers that I look at ARE NOT authorized dealers and therefor under cut the MSRP to get your business. At this you are stuck dealing only w/ that supplier. Your LDS wil in most cases remember you and yor equipment, do factory authorized service or repair for free (vs between $85-$90, to repair a BC). A lot of LDS will service regs annually for no charge just because you bought from them. If you look at the extended costs you will find that it is cheaper to buy from a LDS just from what I list above. Not to mention that if you deal w/ the same store repetivly they may offer you a prefered customer discount.

Anyway that's my 2 cents worth. Think about it.
Jt