LDS vs. INTERNET

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DA Aquamaster:
Well...if recent history is any indicator, a couple of the dealers you mention have lost dealerships due to internet sales that violated dealer agreements..

If you are refering to Scubatoys and their Scubapro line, I don't believe Larry "lost" the scubapro dealership. Rather, I believe he discarded it. My impression is he abided by the dealer agreement and dropped the line because it did not fit in his business model.
 
awap:
If you are refering to Scubatoys and their Scubapro line, I don't believe Larry "lost" the scubapro dealership. Rather, I believe he discarded it. My impression is he abided by the dealer agreement and dropped the line because it did not fit in his business model.
I won't bash the ever popular Larry at Scubatoys, but lets not misrepesent the situation either to make him look like a martyr.

Larry was selling SP stuff on-line in clear violation of the dealer agreement. SP wanted it stopped due to complaints from other SP dealers who were in a position of following the rules and then being undercut by Larry who was targeting their cutomers with on-line sales at prices they could not legititmately compete with.

When SP called him on it Larry, at best, excercised his option to not comply with the request to stop and consequently to no longer be an SP dealer, at worst they did not give him an option. As I am not privy to the exact details, I can't tell you exactly what happened. However, whether he "gave up" or "lost" the dealership is just semantics. The fact was if he wanted to be an authorized SP dealer he could not engage in internet sales of SP equipment or selling it for more than 10% below the MSRP and he knew it.

I agree with and share his frustration that SP claims it cannot track the stuff it makes and sells to dealers, and in particular the serial numbered items. If they were serious about stopping internet sales they would track the items and then either stop the US dealers who pass it on to internet stores like Liesure-Pro and/or stop the European or Asian dealers who pass it on the internet stores by canceling their dealerships.

With regard to Scubatoys and Scubapro, you can blame SP for not stopping internets sales while at the same time not allowing authorized dealers from engaging in internet sales. But you cannot blame the other SP dealers who were being impacted by a loss of business to Scubatoys as Larry was not following the agreement and was consequently placing them at a unfair disadvantage. SP cannot allow one dealer to get away with something it will not allow other dealers to do, and until the rules change, that's the way it needs to stay.

On the other hand, I have a hard time critisizing Scubapro for not wanting to embrace internet sales, especailly at cut rate prices. A large internet store can survive on a enormous volume of sales with only a few percent margin, but a small brick and mortar local dive shop cannot, and if those LDS's start failing, then the service and support network for Scubapro will crumble with it.

The reality is that a low volume LDS is never going to be able to compete with internet giants. And to me, it is not worth the bucks I'd save buying on line to lose a local shop and then have to send everything away for service or warranty support, not to mention the costs of buying and maintaining my own compressor.

A possible solution is to level the playing field and allow authorized dealers to engage in internet sales, but only within certain price parameters to prevent the large Wal-mart equivalent of internet equipment dealers from killing off the local dive shops who provide the warranty and annual service work, training, expertise, local dive knowledge, dive club support, local dive charters and travel packages and the other little things like air.

Detractors of this plan will cal it "price fixing" but I see this as vastly preferable to what Wal-mart has done to mainstreets and locally owned small businesses all over the country. And at least Wal-marts are located all over the country making local purchases possible, while Leisure Pro, Scubatoys, Dive Inn, etc are not - and the odds are that they never will be given the small number of potential dive equipment consumers compared to enormous number of Wal-mart consumers.
 
DA Aquamaster:
I won't bash the ever popular Larry at Scubatoys, but lets not misrepesent the situation either to make him look like a martyr.

Larry was selling SP stuff on-line in clear violation of the dealer agreement. SP wanted it stopped due to complaints from other SP dealers who were in a position of following the rules and then being undercut by Larry who was targeting their cutomers with on-line sales at prices they could not legititmately compete with.

When SP called him on it Larry, at best, excercised his option to not comply with the request to stop and consequently to no longer be an SP dealer, at worst they did not give him an option. As I am not privy to the exact details, I can't tell you exactly what happened. However, whether he "gave up" or "lost" the dealership is just semantics. The fact was if he wanted to be an authorized SP dealer he could not engage in internet sales of SP equipment or selling it for more than 10% below the MSRP and he knew it.

You can blame SP, but you cannot blame the other SP dealers who were being impacted by a loss of business to Scubatoys as Larry was not following the agreement and was consequently placing them at a unfair disadvantage.

I think you've confused Larry at Scubatoys with Phil Ellis at Divesports.

-Brandon.
 
No...I'm not.
 
My understanding of the situation was that Larry wanted to start selling Scubapro products online, and approached Scubapro about it. When they were unwilling to work with him, he cancelled his dealer agreement and sold off his remaining Scubapro stock online.

I hadn't seen Scubapro products on his website prior to his announcement that he would no longer be a Scubapro dealer, so this makes sense to me.

Did I miss part of the discussion?

-B.
 
fairbanksdiver:
My understanding of the situation was that Larry wanted to start selling Scubapro products online, and approached Scubapro about it. When they were unwilling to work with him, he cancelled his dealer agreement and sold off his remaining Scubapro stock online.

I hadn't seen Scubapro products on his website prior to his announcement that he would no longer be a Scubapro dealer, so this makes sense to me.

Did I miss part of the discussion?

-B.

That is my impression also. I don't recall seeing his SP line on his web site until after he announced the breakup. But knowing how Larry puts his customers first, I'd bet he may have been honoring his price match guarrantee. In time, I think the Larry's will prevail and the old school shops are going to have a hard time with potential customers who have done the research and are looking to get the most for their $$$.
 
DA Aquamaster:
Well...if recent history is any indicator, a couple of the dealers you mention have lost dealerships due to INTERNET sales that violated dealer agreements.

I am not saying I do not disagree with what they tried to do as I think most shops would love to sell over the phone, INTERNET, etc at discount prices to improve their volume and cash flow. But the truth is that most major equipment makers will not allow brick and mortar shops to do it. So don't blame the LDS.

It's not about "selling at a discount" it's about being allowed to compete fairly.

And with regard to Leisure-Pro the statement is exactly true, LP has to maintain a website, a warehouse, a phone/order center and shipping staff, but does not need to invest the same money in sales and overhead expenses per dollar of sales revenue as a brick and mortar dive shop and their volume of sales is huge compared to any LDS or even chain of LDS's.

Because they have been given an unfair advantage. Do you really believe that LP has a small investment considering they occupy some of the MOST EXPENSIVE real estate in the world????
 
Johnw...ski:
The LDS will still fill your tank. My thoughts are, if it,s not in stock you have better controll ordering it yourself. Kind of a hard stand but I am tired of waiting forever for items I have ordered through the LDS.

i have been shopping for particular items and am finding that the stock they keep at the local shops is pretty lean. they often cater to a particular type of diver, and those shops that do carry things of interest to other types of divers don't carry very much of it. i understand they don't want to stock a bunch of stuff that may or may not sell, but it's tough to want to buy something from a place that only has one choice for that item on the shelf. i like choices.
 
thelawgoddess:
i have been shopping for particular items and am finding that the stock they keep at the local shops is pretty lean. they often cater to a particular type of diver, and those shops that do carry things of interest to other types of divers don't carry very much of it. i understand they don't want to stock a bunch of stuff that may or may not sell, but it's tough to want to buy something from a place that only has one choice for that item on the shelf. i like choices.

I agree. That being said the more you do shop at the LDS the more they will have to offer. It's the old catch 22...
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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