LeisurePro?

[jeffinhburg]

If I understand what is going on (and I may not), we may be witnessing a very interesting change on the part of the manufacturers/branders. The Zeagle warranty used to be void if the item was sold by an authorized dealer, but not physically over the dive shop counter (see warranty term #8). I think they have modified this, or are in the process of doing so, for some of the internet dealers who are also authorized LDSs (at least that's what I gather from talking to Zeagle and the shops). This trend, if it becomes one, could be a result of increased market share of the companies that don't void warranties, and should result in a much freer market, price-wise. It should hasten the transition others have discussed on this thread.

 

[scubatoys]

The Zeagle warranty used to be void if the item was sold by an authorized dealer, but not physically over the dive shop counter (see warranty term #8). I think they have modified this...

Zeagle has a MAP policy - which means a dealer, net or not, cannot advertise below a certain price... Minimum Advertises Price policy. We are authorized, so we can sell Zeagle on the Net... just can't advertise it cheap. One thing we have just done is have Zeagle custom make some BC's for us. This is a hybrid that I've been diving for some time, calling it the Brigade. Because it is a custom BC for us - it carries no Map policy. I don't have it on the site yet, but it is a Ranger harness, with the roll down pocket that they took off years ago... I always loved that pocket, and instead of the bulky 45 pound bladder that comes on the ranger, we had them install the 35lb Escape bladder so you still have plenty of lift, packs up smaller, and has the Metal D-rings, rear weight pockets, and heavy duty harness.

If a dealer stays within the rules - they can sell - and we can package any price we want - just can't advertise below the MAP.... and the consumer still gets the lifetime Zeagle Warranty.

Hope that clarifys their policy!

 

[jeffinhburg]

So the only remaining impediment (which isn't really a big one) is the MAP? What Larry said makes sense, and he should know better than anyone. It would just make a lot more sense if Zeagle would update their warranty info to reflect this.

I know this is the wrong thread, b/c I was reading the reg, not bc, warranties, but #8 really needs to be removed from these materials, for Zeagle's own sake. Before I started asking questions, I took it at face value, and resigned myself to eliminate Zeagle from my realistic choices, as I couldn't see getting a reg with a great warranty, but losing the warranty. Since my LDS thinks they should get $400 for an Envoy reg, I almost bought another brand instead.

My response to the rest of this thread on LDS vs. not so L-DS:
I'm sick of playing games of leaving and then returning three times, or begging for the 10% discount even though I'm currently putting 3 people through classes with the LDS. I now start out very upfront -- depending on the items, I tell my LDS that I'm willing to pay a 20% premium over the lowest price I can find from an authorized dealer or 30% over LP's price in order to support them and have them available. Believe me, this number is NEVER a lower price than the LDS initially quoted, even if they decide that I'm worthy of the 10% discount that particular day. It also almost never results in a deal. I normally support underdogs and little guys -- and am willing to pay a bit more to do so -- but not to this extent. The business model does have to change.

I just bought personal gear for the stepkid -- yup, made the LDS an offer, was refused, and split it up between LP and scubatoys. Expect the same to happen with the bc and regs when he finishes.

Sorry for the rant.

 

[Orlando Eric]

I've been diving my old rig for far too long and decided to get some new stuff for my very own xmas present. The local shops not only would not work with me but got angry (foul language) when I mentioned cheaper pricing then the "sticker price."

Had I bought it from those shops anyway I would have spent more than I could afford (spent more than I could "afford" anyhow.)

I bought a Aqualung Legend LX a LX Octo and a Veo 200 in a two gauge console. I will now have two rigs one for the sandy shore dives (old rig) and one for deeper wreck dives (new rig).

The money I saved is huge at least to me. It was the difference between getting it and not getting it.

I shop at the not so local shops that are in the areas I dive in (two seperate shops) and the two local shops. LP gave me a two year warranty on these items and like stated earlier a manufacture facing a recall is not going to leave a recalled item out there in use due to where you bought it. The Vicarious Liability is too great.

I worked in a industry that went from 150% to 18% margins. I switched jobs to a industry that still made 40% on thier product. I again switched and now however am in a industry that is not open for price discussion from the customer.

These shops have to find a way to make it. The rental gear resale market seems to be over looked. Buy a good unit and rent it out ten times then sell it-- the rental heavy equipment industry has been doing that for YEARS! You buy a backhoe for $40,000 and rent it for a few years at a good profit then sell it at a better profit than a new one at greatly reduced price. How often do you see a rental gear sale at the LDS? Then it is only Sherwood bruts for sale.

Put a Apeks in the rental fleet and a good computer then sell it after a few rentals. I would have paid the extra money for option "B" to rent a APeks over a low end scuba pro. How many people would pay extra for a steel 100 on a dive boat? There is something that would make it through the rental life and resale nicely.

Local shops seem to be putting together dive clubs and trips there has to be money to be made there or all those travel agencies would not be around. They should be looking into these avenues of income.

The days of bringing in students and soaking them for $2500 worth of $1000 cost gear is over. Not everyone is going to buy a HUB because it is "life saving equipment."

 

[dnishio]

Thought I would throw my thoughts into the mix. . .

I started out very loyal to my LDS (a large chain) as I am somewhat of a new diver. Then I found LP and thought I was in heaven with the savings but I had to remember that not being an authorized retailer the warranty was coming from them. Finally, I found ScubaToys which had higher prices but they are authorized retailers.

While I love to support my LDS and the fact that they are close and convenient I can not in good faith rely solely on them seeing as the items they carry is rather limited. They are also loyal to one agency and the staff is not well versed in options (i.e. DIR, BP/W, etc.) other than what they carry (which is basic gear).

For me, I use all three. It depends on the critical nature of the equipment as to where I would prefer to make the purchase. Cost is of course a factor but as is often the case in decision I make between LP and ScubaToys, the difference in price is not significant for me (which may be a factor of financial status or of my own thinking). I am aware that many people are not concerned about the warranty whether it is from the manufacturer or from another site but it matters to me and with important gear like regulators and BCDs, I like the peace of mind of dealing with the manufacturer. Other items like gloves or booties, cheapest cost tends to win over other factors. The decision on what to buy is still based on all options available.

For what it is worth that is how I think, which changes from time to time as I read more from here and other places and continue to update my opinion.

It is very important to realize that no one way is right and more so to know that your right way is not always the right way for someone else.

 

[Corigan]

Just for what it's worth, scubatoys will match LP's prices.. I buy stuff from all over the place. I've bought from LP, Scubatoys, Scuba.com, local dive shops all over the southeast, and of course a few different LDS' in my town. I try to spread my funds around and give everyone a taste of what I spend. Competition is good in a free economic society.

Matt

 

[dnishio]

Corigan - good to know on the price match - I will have to keep that in mind. Do you know if that price match is good on items where LP can not offer a manufacturer warranty? As it some aspects you are dealing with apple and oranges. But if ScubaToys still matched the price then that is totally cool.

 

[Marek K]

Corigan - good to know on the price match - I will have to keep that in mind. Do you know if that price match is good on items where LP can not offer a manufacturer warranty? As it some aspects you are dealing with apple and oranges. But if ScubaToys still matched the price then that is totally cool.

Don--

As far as my experience goes, ScubaToys will match prices on just about anything they carry that LP (or anyone else) does, no matter whether the other guys offer the manufacturer's warranty or not. And the stuff from ScubaToys will carry the manufacturer's warranty. (Of course, there's a reasonable debate on how valuable a manufacturer's warranty actually is, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms.)

Plus ScubaToys say they'll provide free regulator parts for life, if you get annual service with them on regs purchased from them. And their service labor price is very competitive.

However, ScubaToys does carefully check out a competitor's overall offer on the identical item. (I'm sure they've got LP's web site under Favorites on their browser.) Like if you're asking them to price-match maybe an overseas vendor whose price is much lower, but whose shipping charges are much higher, then ScubaToys will balk at that (I know that from personal experience). But they still tend to be pretty flexible.

On the other hand, LP's selection in much greater, if you're looking for a particular brand that ScubaToys don't carry.

I really like ScubaToys, but there's no single best solution for every issue!

--Marek

 

[serapis]

Ok [Ok So here's the simple truth as I see it. Most of us shop at Walmart for some purchases but will still visit the local butcher for the best cut of meat. So while i buy from my shop if i need to see it or try it on why pay another 4 bucks for the same fin strap.

Fish big enough to swallow a boat are not found in ditches.

 

[Trigger]

In my opinion there is no gamble to it. I have spent around 2000.00 with leisure pro and around the same at local dive shops (you have to support those guys). I have had to return several items and have never had a problem. I was told by many people that you don't get the warranty that you would get at a dive shop. In some cases this is true, but in other cases the leisure pro warranty is better. To sum it up. If your not going to save that much then support your dive shop, but if it's a considerable amount I promise you that you will get the same quality equipment and a good warranty with leisure pro. Good Luck