LeisurePro?

[miesemer]

Do you walk into a car dealership and buy a car with out looking into what the dealership pays for it?

OK, you got me there, but then again I'm guessing "invoice" isn't the true dealer cost. But you're right, I've educated myself.

If we as divers want lower prices then we can make it happen. As more and more go to online dealers shops with either have to lower prices or go under.

Is all about price? Is there any value a local shop could provide that would enable you to do business with them?

LDS and others should look long and hard at the way the large succesful stores are doing business and hopfully learn from the observation.

No arguement here but an LDS doesn't have the customer base of Walmart.

 

[Scubakevdm]

You know, the way scuba equipment is sold right now is changing. There is a balance between low internet prices and the value of LDS service. It is the consumer that determines exacly what each value is worth. There is an evolution of the market going on right now. The LDS or the internet sales company that fails to meet the needs of the market will not survive, but they aren't supposed to. This is survival of the fittest and whatever happens will benefit the consumer, because the customer drives the equation. Scuba diving will not just die, the way we buy goods and services will change. Everything is exactly how its supposed to be.

 

[firedogut]

Is all about price? Is there any value a local shop could provide that would enable you to do business with them?

Yeah...a reasonable price. I'm not saying charge $20 for a top of the line BC. But hell be reasonable. If you bought it for $200 then $800 is not reasonable. You don't have to be the cheapest.


I shop at Best buy. I know that 80% of the items i buy i can get cheaper online. However best buy offers semi-trained people to talk to, ask questions and deal face to face. i'll pay the extra little bit for that. However if best buy wanted $400 for a radio that sells online for $100 best buy is no longer being reasonable.

No arguement here but an LDS doesn't have the customer base of Walmart

Remember at one point Walmart only had a few customers. By changing with time and the needs of their customers walmart is who they are today.

 

[yogi_tala]

Really.

My intention wasn't "whining and trolling". I'm voicing my opinion as others have on the subject.

I just don't get the idea that every LDS needs to show it's bottom line to the public. One point I was trying to make was that you can shop for a product without having to know the cost to the dealer. I'd guess that most people do it all the time with the majority of their purchases. I haven't seen people lined up in the beer store asking the owner how much he pays for the case of beer they're buying and offering him 10% over his cost.

I also was giving my feelings on the remediation industry in which I work. Low margins have only hurt the industry. Experienced people leave the industry for greener pastures, product quality has decreased and companies die leaving customers (ultimately tax payers) without warranty coverage.

BTW - I'd guess the LDS never pays for the $20K air system on $5 fills.

I am sorry that you took the whining and trolling comment personnely (sp?); it was meant as more of a generic commentary on the overall LP v. LDS debates; I wasn't aiming it at you...

I was trying to make the point that Scubakevdm made much more succently in that the industry is in flux and the result will be something different than we see now. I don't disagree with your comments on the low margins 'hurting' your industry. I see that in my line of work /w tons of jobs moving overseas, too. But, the reality of the economics makes it much more viable, even if overall we lose some elegance and efficiency. Most markets are driven by cold objective decisions. <shrug>

My daughter makes sandwiches as a part time job; no matter how good she is, it will never be a six figure salary job. The market can't support high salaries in a very competitive market. The point being that the LDS need to add value in areas where they can earn enough cash to make the shop survive. I don't think that they can live on air fills alone, but maybe, <insert magic here> there is a niche where they can. I don't know, and am glad that I don't have sweat out each grueling day like a lot of shop owners, worrying about next months accounts payable.

Not to pick on you further :-/, but I would make the supposition that the wholesale pricing is pretty transparent in most industries, including the diving community. Part of the issue is the very existance of forums like this where questions are answered by a wide audience who, in aggregate, know the score and/or debate it. Forums like ScubaBoard, JeepForum, Bladeforums, DPReview (digital photography), etc. like this are a large part of the equation in lessening the reliance on dive shops/<insert storefront here>. I can ask questions here and get a better representative sample than relying on a sales person that may or may not know the answer. Besides, there are divers on this board that I would trust much more implicitly (by their history of postings) than I would trust a salesperson walking into a store cold. Even if I have never met nor ever will meet them. Of course, there are others... The wonder of the Internet is the transparency of information, pricing (wholesale or retail) being just one example. So, maybe it isn't the mail order business, per se, that is impacting the LDS, but the flow of information reducing their value. <again, shrug>

jwh

 

[Sean326]

Nooo... It doesn't cost more because it's life support it costs more because some retailers:

1, get better prices than others

2, some retailers insist on greater markups (greedier than others)

3, The manufacturer's use contracts and retailer agreements to artificially maintain higher end user prices.

LP doesn't sell at a loss, believe me they are smart business people who make money. (they are not generally divers)

So based on that we've established that the Zeagle BC that my LDS sells for $795.00 and LP sells for $465.00 costs the retailer somewhere less than $465.00. Leisure pro is buying it for less and selling it for less of a profit.

It has nothing to do with scuba gear being life support equipment.

My Rolex is very small and expensive yet is not life support equipment.

My parachute is very big and costs less than my watch yet a parachute is a piece of life support equipment.

 

[love4steel]

I bought most of my equip. from leisurepro and save hundreds of dollars. No problems. If/when money is no longer an issue - I'll buy my stuff from my LDS.

Actually though - When I buy from LP I walk right up into the shop and purchase over the counter so LP kinda IS my LDS.

 

[scubamax]

You know, the way scuba equipment is sold right now is changing. There is a balance between low internet prices and the value of LDS service. It is the consumer that determines exacly what each value is worth. There is an evolution of the market going on right now. The LDS or the internet sales company that fails to meet the needs of the market will not survive, but they aren't supposed to. This is survival of the fittest and whatever happens will benefit the consumer, because the customer drives the equation. Scuba diving will not just die, the way we buy goods and services will change. Everything is exactly how its supposed to be.

That's right. So many businesses have enjoyed virtual monopolies for years since "if they build it they will come" was all that you needed. Think about it, ten years ago LDS and bookstores had a lot in common. In their market,they had little competition, had prices which did not need to be reduced, especially in markets which had limited or no competition. With so few competitive pressures, prices stayed high, and customer service more often than not suffered (why go out of your way to provide good service if you don't have to?).

Enter the internet, and now who survives? Those who can be able to ADAPT and change with the times. Yes, easier said than done, and not all who try will survive, but in the end we as consumers will be able to get what we demand and deserve.

Of course there will be good honest shops with good service run by nice people who will not make the cut for demographic/economic reasons, etc. but this indeed is the cost of competition and progress.

If you purchase a BC for $ 800 from an LDS with not a lot of service to add value to the product that you can get online for $ 400 what do you get? You subsidize a business model that is living on borrowed time.

scubamax

 

[Diver294]

..uhhh... what he said....

 

[UWSojourner]

Several years ago our firm hired a consultant to help analyse trends and how we should adjust strategically for the future (not a LDS). The only thing I remember was what he said about the impact of the internet,

"If you're in the middle, rethink your business."

The internet will continue to put pressure on those in the middle of any transaction. Count on it.

It's not really anyones fault, just "progress". Any business that relies on sales to ignorant customers (as most specialty type businesses have) is really going to get hurt if they can't adjust. Sure you can sell a BC for 100%+ mark-up to a new guy, but the internet educates people very quickly these days. So ...

"If you're in the middle, rethink your business."

 

[scubamax]

"If you're in the middle, rethink your business."

That's right. The technical term is disintermediation. In plain speak it means streamlining the path of commerce to reduce/eliminate the middlemen, especially those who add little or no value. By providing the consumer with on-demand information and availablity overnight with a product via the internet, traditional middlemen will be forced to change or be pushed out of the way.

Scubamax

P. S. Any reference to gender-specific intermediaries is not meant to be sexist in any way