Narcosis

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Jmarsland:
I'm more asking if there are anythings that people do to help reassure themselves that they -will- be alright.

There are a number of things you can do to have a safer, more enjoyable experience.

1. Plan your dive. After planning the dive, go over it in your mind, so you understand it very well. Do not make any changes to the plan while at depth, with the exceptions of offering aid to another diver in trouble, ascending if you start feeling uncomfortable at depth and aborting the dive if you feel the need.

2. Visualize the dive. Go over every aspect of the dive mentally before you get in the water.

3. Build your depth slowly. Make several dives in the 60 - 70 ft range and get comfortable before diving in the 70 - 80 ft range. Make several dives in that range and get comfortable there before diving deeper.

4. Don't make the mistake of thinking you have to make deep dives. It's not about depth, there are lots of fun dives at shallow depths and you can spend more time there than if you dive deep.

BDSC:
My feeling is if the sypmtoms are so minimal that you can't even notice them, then they are nothing to worry about.

Narcosis is not a problem if you are aware of how it affects us all and take that into account in your plan. Narcosis is a huge problem when we think it's nothing to worry about.
 
I'm very susceptible to narcosis and I have had several incidents of "dark narc". It starts with a feeling of general unease, and goes on to fairly severe perceptual narrowing (I lose the ability to pay attention to everything going on around me). Eventually, I get focused down on something that I'm convinced is going wrong -- the first couple of times, it was my buoyancy. I embarrassed myself on one of my first 100 foot dives in the Sound, by becoming convinced that I was beginning a runaway ascent, and dumping everything out of my wing and suit, and going splat into the silt in the bottom. I've also found myself believing that something is wrong with my regulator, and it isn't delivering air properly.

The first couple of times, I went with the paranoia and acted on it. Later, I learned that such feelings were like ghosts -- scary but unreal -- and I can now talk myself through them when they occur. I just try to avoid deeper dives in very poor visibility (which is where this happens), and if I do deep dives in the Sound now, I do them on a helium mix, which helps a lot.
 
Yep. I've done it a couple of times. Of course it was the old knot tying experiment which in my mind doesn't really prove much but there was no difference in the results at 125 ft vs 25 ft.

The knot tying exercise may or may not be a good guage of narcosis. If you are a sailor, or a climber, or someone else who works with ropes regularly, tying a bowline is something your hands do without the help of your brain (muscle memory). I prefer to have my students do both a coordination test (knots) and a cognitive test (simple math problem. Almost everyone will show a deficiency on at least one of these.

Am I correct BDSC in assuming that you can tie your knots without putting any thought into the effort?
 
Am I correct BDSC in assuming that you can tie your knots without putting any thought into the effort?

You are pretty much correct. I mean how much thought does it take to tie a regular old shoe lace knot. But it was all we could come up with at the time. (15 years ago) We couldn't do the Rubik's Cube because I never could do it under any conditions!

Some type of math problem would probably be a better indicator than knot tying.
 
You are pretty much correct. I mean how much thought does it take to tie a regular old shoe lace knot. But it was all we could come up with at the time. (15 years ago) We couldn't do the Rubik's Cube because I never could do it under any conditions!

Some type of math problem would probably be a better indicator than knot tying.

"A regular old shoelace knot" is the problem. I teach my students to tie a bowline on the first day of the AOW, make sure they can tie it right in 15 feet. Then the second day they are to tie a bowline at depth. The students who already know how to tie the bowline, can usually do it at depth, those that have to think about it, usually screw it up. Therefore, the "boyscouts" get something else, designed to screw them up so as to avoid the "I don't get narced" misconception.
 
"A regular old shoelace knot" is the problem. I teach my students to tie a bowline on the first day of the AOW, make sure they can tie it right in 15 feet. Then the second day they are to tie a bowline at depth. The students who already know how to tie the bowline, can usually do it at depth, those that have to think about it, usually screw it up. Therefore, the "boyscouts" get something else, designed to screw them up so as to avoid the "I don't get narced" misconception.

No doubt that is a much better way to do it. Good idea.

I think when people discuss being "narced" you have to define what you mean by that.

If you are using the term to mean an increase in nitrogen being dissolved in the blood/tissues as you dive deeper, then like some people will say, you are "narc'd" as soon as you begin the dive.

If, however, you are using the term to describe the effects of that nitrogen build-up in divers (and I think most people use the term this way), then I would say that is quite possible to not be narced.

Do you have a build-up of nitrogen in your blood/body......of course. Do you feel any effects from that build-up, same people say no. Some people will tell you that you were narc'd but just didn't know it. But I would say that if you felt no difference at 100ft as let's say 50ft., you had no unusual sensations, actions, thoughts, or whatever, and the dive was a normal dive for you......then again I'd say you were not narc'd. My thought is if the effect from the nitrogen build-up is so incredibly small that you can't even measure it or notice it, then in practical terms there is no effect.

Here is a quote from a paper written by Lawrence Martin, M.D. called: "Scuba Diving Explained, Questions and Answers on Physiology and Medical Aspects of Scuba Diving"

Find it with Google: SECTION I
Effects of Gas Pressure at Depth: Nitrogen Narcosis, CO and CO2 Toxicity, Oxygen Toxicity, and "Shallow-Water Blackout"
WHAT HAPPENS TO GAS PRESSURES AT DEPTH?

"Any gas taken to depth in a scuba tank will be unaffected as long as it remains in the tank. Once it leaves the tank and enters the diver's lungs it will have the same pressure as the surrounding water, i.e., the ambient pressure. This statement is true for the two major components of compressed air (nitrogen and oxygen), as well as for any gaseous impurities (e.g., carbon monoxide).

WHAT IS NITROGEN NARCOSIS?

Nitrogen narcosis, also called "rapture of the deep" and "the martini effect," results from a direct toxic effect of high nitrogen pressure on nerve conduction. It is an alcohol-like effect, a feeling often compared to drinking a martini on an empty stomach: slightly giddy, woozy, a little off balance.

Nitrogen narcosis is a highly variable sensation but always depth-related. Some divers experience no narcotic effect at depths up to 130 fsw, whereas others feel some effect at around 80 fsw. One thing is certain: once begun, the narcotic effect increases with increasing depth. Each additional 50 feet depth is said to feel like having another martini. The diver may feel and act totally drunk. Underwater, of course, this sensation can be deadly. Divers suffering nitrogen narcosis have been observed taking the regulator out of their mouth and handing it to a fish!"

So you can see from Dr. Martins research that some divers don't have any effect at depths up to 130 fsw. Some will have effects at depths less than that.

The bottom line is everyone is different. What affects one person may not affect another. That's why I say I don't and never have had a problem with narcosis.
 
I have told this story before in other narcosis threads, so veterans who recognize it can skip on.

I was diving with my buddy and a guide inside a wreck in Chuuk Lagoon at about 100 feet. I felt perfectly fine and fully alert. The guide went through a hole in a bulkead, and I saw a piece of pipe pointing down from the upper right corner. I noted that it would be easy to snag the regulator hose on it, so I prepared mentally for that possibility.

My buddy went through before me, and he did indeed snag his regulator hose. I watched as he pulled it down to free it and continued through.

I started to go through, and I felt the tug of my snagged hose. At that point, two questions passed through my mind:

  1. Which of my hoses have I snagged?
  2. Do I pull it up or down to free it?

I then thought, "These are really easy questions. I should know the answers. I must be narced."

I want to stress again that even as I was asking these ridiculously easy questions, I felt perfectly fine and alert. If I had not encountered this very minor problem, I would never have known I was having a any difficulty.

Don't underestimate narcosis!
 
"A regular old shoelace knot" is the problem. I teach my students to tie a bowline on the first day of the AOW, make sure they can tie it right in 15 feet. Then the second day they are to tie a bowline at depth. The students who already know how to tie the bowline, can usually do it at depth, those that have to think about it, usually screw it up. Therefore, the "boyscouts" get something else, designed to screw them up so as to avoid the "I don't get narced" misconception.

OK Steve, I've been thinking about your above example and I'm wondering if even that is really a good way to judge.

So I'm your student and I've never tied a bowline. You teach me day one and I learn it and do it at 15ft. Should be pretty easy cause you just showed me and I've probably done it a few times as practice before we dive. The next day I come back and I have to do it again at depth. My question is, before you do the deeper dive, do you refresh them on how to tie it and let them do it a couple of times before the dive. I know in my case if you just showed me day one and I had never done it, I may just naturally forget a little the next day. Just curious.
 
Yes, we do a knot review on the boat ride out. I usually have my students use a bowline to put a small loop in one end of the line to secure the line to the BC so it doesn't get lost, then at depth they are to tie another bowline in the other end.
 
Yes, we do a knot review on the boat ride out. I usually have my students use a bowline to put a small loop in one end of the line to secure the line to the BC so it doesn't get lost, then at depth they are to tie another bowline in the other end.

Seems logical to me.

Thanks!
 

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