Need advice on a tough question

[Big-t-2538]

ScubaVP once bubbled...

What really got me going was that he wouldn't leave us alone underwater and was trying to "adjust" what we were doing.

This concerns me b/c you are not his responsibility during this discover scuba thing....what was he doing with the non-certified discovery divers??? did he leave them alone??

 

[TCDiver1]

MikeS once bubbled...
Good diving skills tend to be easily recognized and universally admired once you get in the water and will provide credibility to your gear configuration.

Good luck,
Mike

Right on!

 

[ScubaVP]

MikeS once bubbled...
Rob,

What you’re experiencing is to be expected if you’re going to go against the flow. A back plate and wings with a long hose is certainly not the mainstream configuration.
It will be difficult for many divers to accept a different configuration that is as good as if not better, than what they’re using. To do so requires that they reexamine their worldview. That’s why change is difficult.

If you’re going to let the reactions like this bother you, there’s a rough road ahead. No offense intended, but you’re post does come across as a bit self-righteous and that may be making the situation worse. I’ve found that if you just calmly explain the equipment configuration and go about diving everyone will come to except it. Good diving skills tend to be easily recognized and universally admired once you get in the water and will provide credibility to your gear configuration. If however you set out on a crusade to get everyone to acknowledge the superiority of your configuration, things won’t go as well.

Good luck,
Mike

Excellent point, Mike. I did know that I was going to receive some questions about the gear. I didn't mean to come off as if I was trying to get everyone to change the way they do things. I am never one to "toot my own horn", and I am sorry if my post came off as such.

I have no problem shrugging people's comments off, as you can see from what I did last night. My fiance and I even discussed this before we went and we agreed that the appropriate response to any questions of why we have our gear configured like that would be "that this is what we have found works for us and the type of diving that we want to do". I think that is a very neutral response. What really got me mad was the what the DM did underwater. We were not his students and had made it a strong point to stay out of their way all evening.

Thanks,
Rob

 

[Zagnut]

You might try talking with the owner but if you do be very polite and respectful of his DMs. Maybe try it again and if you still get hassled. I say follow Netdoc's advice and just find another place to practice where you will be alone and not be bothered. If not a pool, then a local lake or quarry or something.


ScubaVP once bubbled...

They only work with students that are getting certified to go on a trip, and only really know enough to not kill themselves, in my opinion.

Don't be too hard on OW students, after all, you were in their shoes once. Who knows, some of them may get the diving bug like you did, pursue it further and turn into great divers oneday. Heck, they may even turn into great dive buddies for you one day.

 

[ScubaVP]

Zagnut once bubbled...

Don't be too hard on OW students, after all, you were in their shoes once. Who knows, some of them may get the diving bug like you did, pursue it further and turn into great divers oneday. Heck, they may even turn into great dive buddies for you one day.

That is very true! I would love to have more people in the area to dive with that have similar goals as we do.

 

[ScubaVP]

Big-t-2538 once bubbled...


This concerns me b/c you are not his responsibility during this discover scuba thing....what was he doing with the non-certified discovery divers??? did he leave them alone??

The instructor was observing the students & discover scuba diver (there was 4 students and 1 DS diver). The DM did leave them alone when he was messing with us. I am not sure of the instructor ratio for PADI OW classes, but I think they were ok in that aspect. However, it is a bit scary that they didn't have two sets of eyes watching the new students.

 

[cornfed]

MikeS once bubbled...
Rob,

What you’re experiencing is to be expected if you’re going to go against the flow. A back plate and wings with a long hose is certainly not the mainstream configuration.
It will be difficult for many divers to accept a different configuration that is as good as if not better, than what they’re using. To do so requires that they reexamine their worldview. That’s why change is difficult.

It's not the way the DM reacted to the gear but more his response to their diving style that bothers me. The fact that he told them "You won't ever be in a situation where you will need to kick like that [ie frog, etc], and if you are, you will need to get out of there as soon as possible" it's just flat out ignorant! Sure, silt isn't nearly the problem in OW that it is in, say, a cave but does that mean you shouldn't be concerned with it? Secondly, I find that keeping my knees bent and my feet up helps me keep track of my fins. This may sound stupid but I when I was in St. Lucia a while back I never kicked the reef. With my feet up the only things that will hit the reef would be my stomach or my face. Needless to say I'm pretty careful not to drag either of those across the coral !

Cornfed

 

[Big-t-2538]

I see....I thought it was all discover scuba stuff.....

Anyway, still with 4 students and 1 genuine know nothing, I'm not so sure I'd want to be responsible for all 5 of them by myself.

I'm pretty sure they're within standards, but if you have the eyes there, why not use them....

 

[cornfed]

ScubaVP once bubbled...

I would easily venture to say that ALL of the DM's in our area are like this. They only work with students that are getting certified to go on a trip

I think a lot of shops are like this. My friend and his girlfriend got certified last year at a local shop. Of the 10 or 12 people in their class only four of them went to the quarry for their checkouts, the rest did them on a trip. Of the four that went to the quarry only my two friends completed their checkouts. After the first day the other too people said to hell with the cold murky quarry and made arrangements to complete their checkout in warm clear water.

Is there anything wrong this? Absolutely not! The problem is that the shop I mentioned (and others like it) are virtually useless to people that regularly dive in cold murky water. This particular shop tried to steer me away from an environmentally sealed first stage. Last weekend I dove in 48 deg F water so I'm glad I didn't listen to them. Since most of there customer only dive in warm clear water they thought they were being helpful. A lot of people dive once or twice a year in "easy" conditions. It's easy to look down on them when you take diving more seriously (like you seem to), but in the end of the day what does is accomplish?

Cornfed

 

[Zagnut]

..here goes

Cornfed once bubbled...

I find that keeping my knees bent and my feet up helps me keep track of my fins. This may sound stupid but I when I was in St. Lucia a while back I never kicked the reef. With my feet up the only things that will hit the reef would be my stomach or my face. Needless to say I'm pretty careful not to drag either of those across the coral !

In some of the other threads about trim and staying horizontal, it is mentioned that horizontal is good trim and anything else not. I disagree. I often use the Cornfed approach and have found that I can keep my face 6 inches off the reef the whole time if I want to. This allows me really good close up views of small things right on the reef and I never touch or kick the reef. Or if I'm in a quarry, I can get right up to the bottom and not silt it up with my fins. On a drift dive, I can cruise over the contours of the reef using only my breathing to raise and lower myself over those contours. It's not improper weight placement, it's because I sometimes choose to dive with a head down/ feet up position to protect the reef or keep from silting the quarry. It's courtesy to the reef and/or other divers, not poor form.

In swimthrus, though...definately horizontal.