New diver having trouble with the back plate wing BCD my instructor sold me.

[KDAD]

When I got involved in this early this year I came to learn things and research gear options. I quickly came to the decision of BP/W based on the merits of the arguments for it and the lack of any arguments, of merit or otherwise, for a jacket BC. When I received the first, second, and third plate and wings, all of which are interchangeable and replaceable, as needed, and saw how simple they were, I knew that they were the ideal rig. No group think going on there, except for the KDAD family group who will all be in BP/W’s.

When my arm got caught in some kind of strap on a jacket BC (may have been the shoulder strap adjustment strap thing) during OW BC removal/replacement, I knew that a BP/W was right based on the simplicity of the system. OW was a small class – just an instructor and I – so I don’t know what groupthink was going on there, either.

Thanks SB Group for steering me in the right direction before I made any bad equipment purchases.

 

[dfx]

So your point is that a jacket BCD is simpler than a BP/W for nondivers? Nondivers who's total dive training consists of a sheet of paper and a youtube link? Ooh boy...

I don't know about you, but I certainly wasn't born a diver. I had to learn it, and every diver I've ever met so far also was a non-diver at some point in the past. Does the term "learning curve" mean anything to you?

 

[KDAD]

Sure there is a learning curve, but a BP/W simplicity makes the curve less steep. A jacket has a cumberbund with a connector over it. It has adjustable shoulder straps with all kinds of connectors and other snag points. Add in integrated weight pockets and other pockets and learning those. It has added bulk resulting in greater buoyancy and weighting requirements. A BP/W has little to none of that. I can dive my BP/W in a 3 mm with no weight if I want to. Any additional weight goes on a simple belt with a buckle which is easily dropped if needed or directly on the rig if appropriate. A dump valve is a dump valve same as an inflator. If one is faulty or a diver cannot operator one, the choice of BC has no bearing.

Where is the learning curve for a BP/W? Threading the harness? Maybe, but either get the instructor who sold it to you or come here or YouTube. Mounting the wing? Same.

Fairly recently I was a non-diver who owned a BP/W. Now I am a diver who dives in one and I can tell you that there was no learning curve that was not easily overcome. And using one makes me a better diver.

 

[kelemvor]

I even saw one guy trying to don his rig with the tank somehow attached to the INSIDE of his BCD.

Pics?

 

[RJP]

I don't know about you, but I certainly wasn't born a diver. I had to learn it, and every diver I've ever met so far also was a non-diver at some point in the past. Does the term "learning curve" mean anything to you?

As a scuba instructor - and one-time non-diver - I can assure you that I'm familiar with the learning curve that new divers go through.

As I've mentioned above, all of my experience working with new and experienced divers supports my belief and personal experience that a BP/W is not only NOT HARDER for new divers to use but that the use of a BP/W by OW students actually makes it easier to learn to dive than using a jacket style BCD.

Id be interested to hear what you have concluded about this subject based on your own personal experience working as a DM or instructor with many, many divers over the past decade?

Oh, wait... Nevermind.

 

[Colliam7]

My PADI open water certification is only a week old . . . I am having trouble emptying the bladder of my Dive Rite wing. The only ones wearing these wings are my son and me, everyone else, including our dive masters, are in jackets. I have had two involuntary ascents while I try to dump air. I have learned to get vertical to dump air while holding my corrugated hose way up high and depressing the "big" button . . . . I have not yet pulled the valve located at the bottom right. I may try this tomorrow while horizontal. Everyone in my party has a low opinion of this wing. The dive masters think it is inappropriate for me. . . I would appreciate kind and constructive suggestions!

Although the discussion seems to have devolved into a BP/W vs jacket 'discussion' (some might say monkey s**t fight), I am really not sure that is the heart of the issue in the OP's case. Unfortunately, some critical data are missing from her narrative, including but not limited to 1) what specific wing the OP is diving, 2) whether the DMs (who apparently are diving in jackets) are at all familiar with BP/W BCDs, or simply view them as some strange, alien contraption, ans 3) whether the son, who is apparently diving the same rig, is having the same problems, or doing just fine. When the OP indicates that everyone in her party has a low opinion of the wing, that doesn't necessarily mean those opinions are informed or valid, because everyone else is also in jacket and may suffer from the same subjective reaction to that alien BCD.

So, putting aside the 'low opinion' issue, and the dive masters' thoughts that it (and it is not clear if it is an opinion specific to the wing, or to BP/W rigs in general) is inappropriate for her - we really have not been told why they think that - perhaps Dive Rite is not a brand they have ever seen, or a brand that the resort / dive shop doesn't carry (and therefore must somehow be entirely substandard).

There is at least some suggestion from the OP's comments that the problem may simply be a lack of diving experience, lack of familiarity with the particular gear, and receipt of either bad advice, or even sub-optimal instruction - who told her to 'get vertical to dump air while holding my corrugated hose way up high'? Why wasn't she taught that, when you are swimming in good horizontal rim, and need to bleed a bit of air, it is much easier to lift your bottom up and inch or so and vent through the butt dump. This is a technique relevant to all BCDs - I use it with my jacket all the time. Why wasn't she taught that when swimming in good horizontal trim, you don't have to go vertical, all you have to do is rotate 90 degrees to the right, so the (left) shoulder dump is now the highest point on the wing?

It is too bad that she has not returned to add clarification to her comments, and to let us know how the next day of diving went. It is often stated that equipment is not a solution to a skills issue. Perhaps, a useful paraphrase of that sentiment would be that equipment is not the culprit when there is a skills issue, either. Everyone has a learning curve. It appears that the OP is merely near the beginning of that learning curve. We all have to start somewhere.

 

[Water Boy76]

I think it's less "group think" than it is "a skewed perspective."

Group think specifically refers to a phenomenon where the group as a whole accepts one position or line of thinking in order to achieve harmony among the group, with the result being that no one in the group offers differing viewpoints. I don't think anyone would accuse SB members of seeking harmony.

You got that right. I've never been accused of seeking harmony on this board.

 

[timz]

I've started to ise Dive Rite travelpac on my 8th-11th dives since my OW certification at the same resort. The switch definitely require some effort.

It was a mess when i on my 8th dive. I couldn't get a proper trim and I forgot to put on the crotch strap. The wing tends to go up.

On the surface, haih.... it's tipping me forward and i can't get a proper balance.

However, things got better without me realizing it. And on the 11th dive, the DM told me I've got a more proper trim and could dive much better and more horizontal. And I could stay on the surface more comfortably by lying on my back.

Dumping the air through the corrugated hose is better when u unstrap the velcro every time u dump the air. Then u strap it back.

Kidney dump works well too but i have to keep reminding myself to dump the air via the kidney dump. Not my first instict. Hope I'll get more used to it as time goes.

Most OW water were too used to jacket style. At least for me, due to the fact that I've had more than 20 pool dives at the Dive centre b4 my OW.

But i guess it's normal being not comfortable with the wing. But u've eventually get over it.

BTW, where I stay... dive site are mostly tropical warm water and we dive on "beach pants" or surfing pants. Not sure it will hurt when doing a giant stride with the crotch strap on... please advise. Thanks

 

[Water Boy76]

Since it appears we have lost the op I will respond.

You constantly jump into these threads with nothing beneficial to contribute except a broad complaint that many posters on SB like certain gear. If you don't like the recommendations fine. But instead of insulting all posters in a thread, make your own specific recommendations and why its a better choice. I agree that SB members are skewed toward high quality gear and toward the techies. Give us a balanced opinion instead of these sweeping condemnations that add nothing to the threads, often derail the threads and are indeed insulting to those of us that are genuienly trying to help.

I sir, did not fire until fired upon.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I've started to ise Dive Rite travelpac on my 8th-11th dives since my OW certification at the same resort. The switch definitely require some effort.

It was a mess when i on my 8th dive. I couldn't get a proper trim and I forgot to put on the crotch strap. The wing tends to go up.

On the surface, haih.... it's tipping me forward and i can't get a proper balance.

However, things got better without me realizing it. And on the 11th dive, the DM told me I've got a more proper trim and could dive much better and more horizontal. And I could stay on the surface more comfortably by lying on my back.

Dumping the air through the corrugated hose is better when u unstrap the velcro every time u dump the air. Then u strap it back.

Kidney dump works well too but i have to keep reminding myself to dump the air via the kidney dump. Not my first instict. Hope I'll get more used to it as time goes.

Most OW water were too used to jacket style. At least for me, due to the fact that I've had more than 20 pool dives at the Dive centre b4 my OW.

But i guess it's normal being not comfortable with the wing. But u've eventually get over it.

BTW, where I stay... dive site are mostly tropical warm water and we dive on "beach pants" or surfing pants. Not sure it will hurt when doing a giant stride with the crotch strap on... please advise. Thanks

I've done giant strides in a bpw with crotch strap and just a skin and swim trunks from 8 feet or so. No problems. Done backward rolls from 12 feet also. A bpw is no harder to learn than any other piece of gear for a new diver IF the instructor makes it that way. If students see you do something and make it look easy they will try to emulate that. Make it look or sound hard and they will get nervous and start screwing up. I find it infinitely easier to do the bc off and on in a bpw in midwater. It doesn't flap around, only three strap ends to worry about, no chest strap to get wrapped around the shoulder strap, and the webbing is stiff enough that it's easy to control.

Where people go wrong is buying one from shops that don't normally train in them or have a number of divers using them. Ignorance of how the system works and how to set it up instills fear in some instructors. The usually lower profit margin scares shop owners as well as the unlikely event that anyone would have to replace the entire rig. Unless it got stolen.

A recreational diver with disposable income and a shady shop may turn into being able to sell said diver several BC's over say ten years. A bpw - once. After that it's 15 bucks worth of webbing if a shop would even have it as many are clueless about why they should carry bulk webbing. Or a wing that can also be bought used. I have some instructors who are affiliates that bought 4 or 5 bpw setups for students. Those 4 rigs replace having to buy as many as 20 or more jackets to fit every combination of students in a 4 person class.