Number of dives metric

[alewar]

There is absolutely no way that one 60 min shallow reef dive would equate in experience to 2 or 3 typical deep wreck dives. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

I have the impression that people doing serious diving tend to have lower #dives/uw-time ratios than pure recreational divers. If you are doing decompression dives you won't get many dives per day, compared to people that stay shallow and use small cylinders.

 

[Bogtrotter]

Yeh I mentioned in another thread that I recently dove with someone who had done just that- he logged 2000 dives in a quarry on cheap refills at a local firestation. He was the most awkward of the four of us on that dive..certainly in terms of buoyancy and trim anyway. Dive experience is relative to environment that you have mostly dived in I should think, a dm jumping 2-3 times a day the dock in Florida is a novice offshore in Newfoundland. A good diver is another thing altogether- excellent trim, bouyancy, knowledge of rescue and safety procedures...you don't need 1000+ plus dives to have that.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Metrics such as number of dives or number of hours don't really tell you much about a diver's actual skills ... because they don't take into account the conditions the diver is diving in, or the attitude of the diver, or quite a few other measureables that more accurately quantify what knowledge and skills the diver may or may not possess.

Consider the OW instructor who has been teaching for 30 years, logged thousands of dives, certified hundreds or thousands of students, but who doesn't do a whole lot of diving outside of the class environment. Is he any better than the guy who's been diving for four years, logged less than 500 dives, but has done most of them in Florida caves, or on Lake Superior wrecks? And is that guy any better than the kid who grew up in Indonesia or the Maldives diving deep channels with heavy current? What about the California diver who cut his teeth on surf entries and navigating through kelp and heavy surge? Or the river divers who have developed a "sixth sense" that makes them feel completely at home drifting in extremely poor visibility?

Each of those people has skills the others do not possess. Each, in their own way, has mastered certain skills while not at all gaining any kind of expertise in others. How do you judge a diver's fitness for a particular dive without knowing those things?

Then there's this ... who do you think might be a better diver ... the guy with 1000 dives over a 30 year period or the guy with 500 comparable dives over a 3 year period? My bet would be on the latter ... repetition and recent experience count for quite a bit more than a simple tally of total number of dives.

Whenever trying to ascertain someone's diving expertise, number of dives is really only a single data point ... and it's only relative to where, what type, and over how long of a period that person's been diving ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Pullmyfinger]

Measuring the experience of a diver.......it sort of falls into the, you know it when you see it category.

I agree....dive count doesn't really tell you much.
I think people that are regularly and independently going diving, are the more competent and confident divers.

 

[Diver0001]

It seems all agencies use the number of dives to qualitatively measure the experience of a diver.
Wouldn't it be better to use the number of hours underwater instead? Someone once went as far as suggesting me to log three 20 minutes dives instead of the one hour dive I did... WTF.

No. Neither the number of dives nor the amount of time spent under water is a good measure of diver skill.

Agencies (I believe) all use a 2 step process.

1) divers without X number of dives are excluded
and
2) if you meet the minimum number of dives, you must make a dive with the instructor before training commences so that he/she can judge your skill level.

This is how all training is approached from the AOW level onward in most systems.

Do you have an issue with this?

R..

 

[DivemasterDennis]

I certainly believe that time under water is a more telling statistic than number of dives. I also think the variety of environments and locations a diver has experience is important information when evaluating the skills of that diver. Both facts are as important as training level and certifications. I have less than 1000 dives, more than 500. That makes me a novice according to some, but I have dove low vis cold water lakes here in Colorado, and have also dove throughout Mexico ( ocean and cenotes), Southern California, Florida Atlantic coast, gulf, and Keys, all the Hawaiian Islands except Oahu, and have dove Fiji, Bonaire, the Caymans, Saba, Statia, Nevis and St. Kitts, St Martin, and some of the Bahamas, and a few more Caribbean destinations. I consider myself a competent and experienced recreational diver in a variety of conditions. But in Puget Sound I would be a newbie.
DivemasterDennis

 

[Jaydubya]

Number of dives is only one indicator of experience. Experience is definitely environment-relative. I have 500+ dives in the last 7 years - mostly cave, wreck, and quarry. I'm ok (competent not expert) at 260 ft in Eagles Nest but I'd be completely lost at first on a reef dive. However, my dive skills are well-honed and I'm quite comfortable in seas, current, low viz, and cold water. I bet I would pick up what I need to know about clear warm water reef diving very quickly.


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[MXGratefulDiver]

Number of dives is only one indicator of experience. Experience is definitely environment-relative. I have 500+ dives in the last 7 years - mostly cave, wreck, and quarry. I'm ok (competent not expert) at 260 ft in Eagles Nest but I'd be completely lost at first on a reef dive. However, my dive skills are well-honed and I'm quite comfortable in seas, current, low viz, and cold water. I bet I would pick up what I need to know about clear warm water reef diving very quickly.

Not all warm-water reefs are the same ... and some take more effort getting used to than others. Prior to my Maldives trip I'd never used a reef hook ... and had done only a handful of hot drops. Doing them on steep walls with really stiff current took a bit of trial and error ... with a few more errors than I was expecting. And some of those pinnacles we did in Komodo were ... interesting ... you really had to pay attention and stay in the lee of the rocks unless you wanted an unexpected and rather swift ride to someplace the boat might not think to look for you ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[R-balljunkie]

I dove a couple of weekends ago with a hodge podge mix of divers. One PADI Course director, One active instructor, One DM, One Master diver a few advanced (myself included) divers of varying degrees of experience.

I probably have 500 or so dives, five countries covering deep wrecks, reefs, lagoons, ocean walls, etc. All rec, no tec.

After seeing the Master diver in the group freak out and have to be brought up to around 30' holding her partners hand (most of the group was hanging around 70') after seeing a large group of sharks....had me chuckling (sorry John if you're reading this thread).

Just like in my professional career (mechanical engineer) i've never put too much merit into certs and registrations. I've met plenty of horrible registered PE's in my career (not sorry Steve if your reading this).

End of the day, you can be a less than proficient diver with all the certifications in the world. Experience comes from working thru tough dives and rookie mistakes.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Master Diver is a meaningless designation in PADI parlance ... all it means is that you've purchased a requisite number of specialty classes. There is absolutely no additional requirement other than the fee for the card.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)