Octo/inflator vs. regular (traditional) octo

[watt]

Having to actually use the AIR2 while donating my primary 2nd stage to a panicked OOA diver convinced me to switch back to the traditional system and subsequently to the DIR configuration. I'm not arguing for DIR, but donating a standard primary 2nd stage while using the AIR2 during the ascent created to many error likely situations.

 

[BTravlin]

Having to actually use the AIR2 while donating my primary 2nd stage to a panicked OOA diver convinced me to switch back to the traditional system and subsequently to the DIR configuration. I'm not arguing for DIR, but donating a standard primary 2nd stage while using the AIR2 during the ascent created to many error likely situations.

What exactly were the problems you experienced that changed your mind?

 

[shurite7]

The issue I have seen with those using the air2 is lack of training, whether by the doner or the reciever. Not all, very few actually, o/w students train with an air2.

The other issue that becomes quite apparent when donating and using the air2 is buoyancy. I've seen people donate their primary and switch to the air2 with no problem, but they couldn't control their buoyancy.

I have only seen one couple become proficient with the air2. They were married and practiced together in the pool and at the lake. Since they were a alway's buddied together it really wasn't an issue. However, they both admitted they would not use the air2 while diving with someone they never practiced with. They would reconfigure their reg to the normal setup.

C

 

[Charlie99]

The one big potential disadvantage of a conventional octo setup is not being able to locate it if it has been dislodged. Both bungeed octo and the integrated octo/inflator avoid this problem. Obviously, you can also avoid the problem by having a good solid reliable octo holder. I find that a simple snorkel keeper on my upper right chest D-ring is the most reliable method.

If you choose to go with integrated octo/inflator, then it is essential that you frequently practice ascents while breathing off of it.

If having to donate the reg out of your mouth is a problem or concern, then you need to practice that skill. In an emergency situation, a panicked diver might grab your primary even if you have a separate octo you intend to donate.

Charlie Allen

 

[Nemrod]

Well here's a vote FOR the Airsource/Air2 type rig:

1. Streamlined -- it does get rid of another hose and does reduce drag

2. Always know where the alternate is which is very important. I've never heard of donating the Airsource -- that is YOUR alternate. You donate the primary which means you know you are donating a rig that is working -- as opposed to donating a rig that nobody has breathed for how long (after being dragged through the sand, through the mud, through the reef...).

3. Minimizes danglies. How many times do you see people who's octos have come free and are just dangling around? And then, of course, it is NOT in the "triangle" easy to donate.

4. Much easier and faster to donate the reg in your mouth than to fumble with finding the octo that is somewhere "down there" and maybe covered by the dangling light/camera/slate/whatever that is also attached to your BC.

5. IF you use an Airsource/Air2, you really do need to put an "octo length" hose (or longer) on your primary to make the donation easy.

No, I don't use my Airsource any more but that's because I've gone to a bungied backup which means I do donate my primary -- for all the reasons I've stated above.

Point number two--how can you say that when every agency on the planet teaches that way and 95% of all divers are configured that way? Regulators even come configured that way in the box with the primary on a short hose and the neon yellow octo on a long yellow hose--for donation. I am not saying it is best or any of that but it is FACT it is STANDARD. Perhaps I am reading that wrong. BTW, an octapus second is not an alternate--it is the same air supply-- sourced from another second stage but implies no redundancy--which is not part of the OPs question anyways.

N

 

[jeckyll]

No matter which configuration you end up with, I'd say the 2 biggest things are:

1) Regularly practice donating gas to ensure you are comfortable with your config
2) Include the "how I will donate gas" in the pre-dive discussion

Best of luck.

 

[*Floater*]

Just one thing, if you were to donate the primary and the donating diver then switches to the Air II I don't think the corrugated hose needs to be all that much longer than standard.

I use a 13 inch corrugated hose for singles without the air2, and 18 inch corrugated hose with the air2. I need those extra 5 inches to be able to turn my head all the way to the right when breathing the air2 (or Rite Source in my case). But I have it on a necklace so it doesn't dangle or create problems despite the extra length.

FWIW, the main advantage for me was one less hose and therefore one less thing to remember and don/doff when gearing up/down. The trade-off was a lower quality backup and less redundancy.

 

[Nemrod]

I use a 13 inch corrugated hose for singles without the air2, and 18 inch corrugated hose with the air2. I need those extra 5 inches to be able to turn my head all the way to the right when breathing the air2 (or Rite Source in my case). But I have it on a necklace so it doesn't dangle or create problems despite the extra length.

FWIW, the main advantage for me was one less hose and therefore one less thing to remember and don/doff when gearing up/down. The trade-off was a lower quality backup and less redundancy.

Doesn't it feel uncomfortable to necklace all of that? Just an innocent question. I think I would leave it clipped as it would normally be to my LH strap with a bungee loop.

Also, I know it is just semantics but there is little or no redundancy in an octapus/Air II/RiteSource, they have the same air source as the primary and therefore there can be no real redundancy. This is one of the biggest misconceptions in scuba, systems designed for air sharing (octapus/Air II/Rite Source etc) are not intended to and do not provide any redundancy--they are for air sharing with an OOA diver--that is their only real purpose. The only way to provide redundancy is via a pony, independent doubles, isolation doubles and that is about the only ways there are to accomplish redundancy. The redundancy is provided by the Buddy Team concept, that is, divers on a single tank, no pony, no doubles, derive their redundancy from their buddy. For those who dive outside of the Buddy Team concept they best consider what redundancy really means and how best to achieve it given their circumstance or if they even require it.

N

 

[*Floater*]

Doesn't it feel uncomfortable to necklace all of that? Just an innocent question. I think I would leave it clipped as it would normally be to my LH strap with a bungee loop.

Also, I know it is just semantics but there is little or no redundancy in an octapus/Air II/RiteSource, they have the same air source as the primary and therefore there can be no real redundancy. This is one of the biggest misconceptions in scuba, systems designed for air sharing (octapus/Air II/Rite Source etc) are not intended to and do not provide any redundancy--they are for air sharing with an OOA diver--that is their only real purpose. The only way to provide redundancy is via a pony, independent doubles, isolation doubles and that is about the only ways there are to accomplish redundancy. The redundancy is provided by the Buddy Team concept.

N

It's noticeably heavier on land, but in the water I don't feel it, plus it's easy to inflate with because when I press the inflate button my chest acts as "counterbalance" if you will (can't think of the right word) so I don't need to hold to grab it with my whole hand like I do with regular inflators.

You are right of course about the air source redundancy. I was more thinking about redundancy in the sense that if one piece (inflator or backup reg) fails, then chances are the other will also be affected in the air2 units unlike in standard setups, plus you don't have your inflator/deflator as the second backup anymore (not including buddy) since with the air2 it's your first and only backup - well maybe you could strip the first off the tank and feather it to breathe the bubbles, but I don't know if that would work, or if anyone would do it...

 

[halocline]

The only way to provide redundancy is via a pony, independent doubles, isolation doubles and that is about the only ways there are to accomplish redundancy.
N

A nice redundant language example from the Department of Redundancy department.