Octo/inflator vs. regular (traditional) octo

[Nemrod]

Floater, that is nice to know, sounds like an intersting idea. I know you talked about it before (thread on hose length) but now that you have been diving that way it seems you still like it. Glad it is working out for you.

Mattboy, thanks for pointing that out. I had split a sentence and when it went back together it no longer makes sense--oh well--not like I am getting paid to write this stuff.

NN

 

[Couv]

Floater, that is nice to know, sounds like an intersting idea. I know you talked about it before (thread on hose length) but now that you have been diving that way it seems you still like it. Glad it is working out for you.

Mattboy, thanks for pointing that out. I had split a sentence and when it went back together it no longer makes sense--oh well--not like I am getting paid to write this stuff.

NN

Now if we could just git you to spel octowpuss rite....

 

[Nemrod]

Now if we could just git you to spel octowpuss rite....

octopus

There, are you happy now?

Quit picking on me or I will cut your hoses:11:.

N

 

[Laustimus]

Slightly OT, but I was wondering, can you put an Air II or the Zeagle one on a Wing like the Oxycheq's? is the hose that connects all these all universal on wings and BC's?

Thanks

 

[Couv]

Slightly OT, but I was wondering, can you put an Air II or the Zeagle one on a Wing like the Oxycheq's? is the hose that connects all these all universal on wings and BC's?

Thanks

Mostly yes,

But in some cases you may need an adapter or hose. Dive Rite Express has pretty much all the parts you need.

Even a replacement hose should you correct the wrong person's spelling.

Dive Rite Air Cells (Wings) for Singles and Doubles

couv

 

[SteveAD]

I dive a an air 2 on a zeagle tech. no adaptor necessary. I also dive my primary on a 7 foot hose and always brief any new buddy in the event of ooa take my primary, air 2 is mine. I regularly swith to my air 2 mid dive to ensure it is functional, and since I dive dry 95% of the time venting on ascent is a non issue, although I have practiced venting while breathing the air2 and had no issues.

 

[Thalassamania]

Breathing the short hose primary and donating the long(er) hose octapus represents the standard training of virtually all diving training and virtually all divers with some few exceptions. That is because this system is flexible and works well in most all circumstances short of overhead/cave/penetration diving.

Back in the mid 1970s we spent almost a year discussing and testing the alternatives. Our finding was that the primary should be donated. This was based both on practicality issues and on the base premise that there needed to be one and only one way of initiating the flow of an emergency procedure. Donation of the primary made everything identical it did not matter if the receiver was expecting to buddy-breathe or to use an auxiliary. The procedure changed only when the donor permitted the primary to remain with the receiver and shifted to his or her secondary. With respect to the backup (type, location, deployment, training, practice, etc.) we found that it was the responsibility of each individual diver. We also found that a longer primary hose was advantageous, with a five foot hose being ideal for open water with a single tank and a seven foot hose being better for doubles or diving in an overhead environment.

Well here's a vote FOR the Airsource/Air2 type rig:

1. Streamlined -- it does get rid of another hose and does reduce drag
2. Always know where the alternate is which is very important. I've never heard of donating the Airsource -- that is YOUR alternate. You donate the primary which means you know you are donating a rig that is working -- as opposed to donating a rig that nobody has breathed for how long (after being dragged through the sand, through the mud, through the reef...).
3. Minimizes danglies. How many times do you see people who's octos have come free and are just dangling around? And then, of course, it is NOT in the "triangle" easy to donate.
4. Much easier and faster to donate the reg in your mouth than to fumble with finding the octo that is somewhere "down there" and maybe covered by the dangling light/camera/slate/whatever that is also attached to your BC.
5. IF you use an Airsource/Air2, you really do need to put an "octo length" hose (or longer) on your primary to make the donation easy.

No, I don't use my Airsource any more but that's because I've gone to a bungied backup which means I do donate my primary -- for all the reasons I've stated above.

I donate my primary and choose a backup appropriate (at least in my view) to what I am doing and whom I am diving with. For a single tank on a no-D, openwater dive my favorite is:

The one big potential disadvantage of a conventional octo setup is not being able to locate it if it has been dislodged. Both bungeed octo and the integrated octo/inflator avoid this problem. Obviously, you can also avoid the problem by having a good solid reliable octo holder. I find that a simple snorkel keeper on my upper right chest D-ring is the most reliable method.

If you choose to go with integrated octo/inflator, then it is essential that you frequently practice ascents while breathing off of it.

If having to donate the reg out of your mouth is a problem or concern, then you need to practice that skill. In an emergency situation, a panicked diver might grab your primary even if you have a separate octo you intend to donate.

Backup choice, location, securing, deployment, etc., ain't nobody's business but your own. But is is very serious business, and input from your fellow team members should always be sought.

Point number two (referencing Peter)--how can you say that when every agency on the planet teaches that way and 95% of all divers are configured that way? Regulators even come configured that way in the box with the primary on a short hose and the neon yellow octo on a long yellow hose--for donation. I am not saying it is best or any of that but it is FACT it is STANDARD. Perhaps I am reading that wrong. BTW, an octapus second is not an alternate--it is the same air supply-- sourced from another second stage but implies no redundancy--which is not part of the OPs question anyways.

Who give a rat's rear end what every agency on the planet and 95% of all divers on Earth do? Surely not you? Surely not me? Surely not Peter?

 

[Nemrod]

Back in the mid 1970s we spent almost a year discussing and testing the alternatives. Our finding was that the primary should be donated. This was based both on practicality issues and on the base premise that there needed to be one and only one way of initiating the flow of an emergency procedure. Donation of the primary made everything identical it did not matter if the receiver was expecting to buddy-breathe or to use an auxiliary. The procedure changed only when the donor permitted the primary to remain with the receiver and shifted to his or her secondary. With respect to the backup (type, location, deployment, training, practice, etc.) we found that it was the responsibility of each individual diver. We also found that a longer primary hose was advantageous, with a five foot hose being ideal for open water with a single tank and a seven foot hose being better for doubles or diving in an overhead environment.
I donate my primary and choose a backup appropriate (at least in my view) to what I am doing and whom I am diving with. For a single tank on a no-D, openwater dive my favorite is:

Backup choice, location, securing, deployment, etc., ain't nobody's business but your own. But is is very serious business, and input from your fellow team members should always be sought.

Who give a rat's rear end what every agency on the planet and 95% of all divers on Earth do? Surely not you? Surely not me? Surely not Peter?

Well, those are good thoughts but who is the "we" your talking about and why would the rest of the world care what that "we" think? The point is that most of the agencies with the exception of this GUE best I can discern do not agree with "we" and that is said without taking a particular side, just as an observation of a non interested outsider because frankly, I would do away with both if it were me--oh--darn--I did much of them time. I only rig either an octapus or a so called "primary and secondary" when I am forced to.

The pic is so little I cannot see it--what is that you have pictured there. So, if I am following you your saying the octo/inflator is your choice? How did you set that up and maybe I will do the same. These days I am still liking my SeaTurtle octapus.

N

 

[Thalassamania]

The pic is so little I cannot see it--what is that you have pictured there.

You'd likely get a kick out of this gem. I got it from MARES maybe fifteen years ago for testing. I don't know if it was ever put on the market. It lets you attach any standard second stage to the bottom of a BC inflator, works like a champ, adequate flow (unlike some similar predecessors). With a longish corrugated hose and a side breather its real comfortable, your head is not pulled to the side. Seems to have none of the drawbacks of most of the integrated auxiliaries except that you can't buy it and that it works best with a discontinued regulator ... but that's right up your alley.

 

[Couv]

You'd likely get a kick out of this gem. I got it from MARES maybe fifteen years ago for testing. I don't know if it was ever put on the market. It lets you attach any standard second stage to the bottom of a BC inflator, works like a champ, adequate flow (unlike some similar predecessors). With a longish corrugated hose and a side breather its real comfortable, your head is not pulled to the side. Seems to have none of the drawbacks of most of the integrated auxiliaries except that you can't buy it and that it works best with a discontinued regulator ... but that's right up your alley.

If I am understanding this picture, the inflator/alternate hose goes up through the middle of the corrugated hose. Is that correct? Ever since I was forced to adopt the alternate air source/second stage concept, I was hoping someone would invent an item like this. Looks very clean and neat, not to mention that one can install the second stage of his choice to the end of it.

I have to assume that the elbow where the corrugated hose attaches to the bc has a fitting that accepts a rather short lp hose. If Mares holds the patent on this, they just might get me to end my Mares boycott.

couv