Online vs. Local Dive Shop

[scubapro50]

Many of the smaller local dive shops are having a hard time due to the lack of service from some of the large scuba companies. Went into my local shop today and purchased a new mask and some soft lead packs. Found out they had been dropped by CRESSI because "THEY DIDN'T SELL ENOUGHT MERCHANDISE" to keep them as a dealer. The shop had been using CRESSI in their pool training and rentals for years. They were clearing out all CRESSI merchandise and letting customers know of the problems. The owner stated it was hard to keep a small shop going. He said that many sales reps (OCEANIC for one) hardly ever returned his calls. It seems that unless you're a large account (like ScubaToys) they don't want to take the time to service you. TOO BAD .... 3 out of 5 local shops have closed durning the past few years in our area. My LDS tried to get the SCUBAPRO line but they said he was too small and didn't do enough bussiness .....

 

[merlin7896]

I'll be candid right off, I have not had a good experiance at my LDS where I recieved my training, and its the usual laundery list of complaints, having ill fitting pooh foisted on my as a beginner package, at what turned out to be an inflated price ect. PLUS, as a glutton for punishment, my regulator failed twice the first dive after having my yearly maint. done on it (I kept going back for my "free + cost of parts maint cause well, im stupid.) Plus, looking back on it as an experianced diver my training was not enough to prepare me to be an OWD, but I digress.

MSRP is often a huge markup, usually 50%, or double, what wholesale cost is, known as a 'keystone" markup. There is usually another manufacturer set price known as "MAP" or minimum advertised price, which is, depending on the company, between a 35% to 50% markup over its maximum volume discount. This is how larger, higher volume shops can offer better prices, and why when you look at higher volume internet sales sites, they often quote the same price. In many industries, to counter online sales, local shops, even not the high volume ones, have also gone to MAP pricing to retain customers, and then sought alternate revenue streams to regain margins, such as training, trips, ect. It seems like the smaller, more insular shops are, in general, the slowest to adapt to changing market conditions, and unfortunatly some simply stick there head in the coral, maintain keystone, and complain that people are buying online and have no loyalty. These shops will probably go out of business eventually, as they don't change their business model.

LDS no longer have a monopoly on equipment information, forums such as this one have seen to that. Consumers are no longer beholden to sales reps who push certain gear because of margins, or sales programs offered by manufactueres or regional sales reps.

This is a good thing.

The best LDS will servive because we do need them, and they wont rip us off, they recognize consumers have a choice. It is possible to provide service and value.

 

[gtwtdvr]

When you realized you just spent 4 g's, and you could have saved 2 g's, it's pretty easy to justify it. I have never had a problem with online shops. I've used both online and LDS's. Reg. and BC I purchased at my LDS, and the rest online. I'm telling you that's the way to go.

 

[alo100]

I didn't catch the fact that you are OUS. (You might want to fill in your profile so that we know where you're coming from) I'm sure that changes the shipping rates. My argument was for US shipping. I'll admit that I don't have any experience with OUS shipping rates.

When I made the Dive Ixx price quote online, I was using zip code of my home in Calif.
Let me ask, the online store also need to keep it's storage some where, right? So the shippment maybe cost different too, dep on where you live. I was using the Dive Ixx as an example (But the Dive Ixx does have a wide selections for Apeks, that I am happy to find out), if I am in Europe now, I will use it. Are you saying that most online stores can offer people better price no matter which state you're in?

Besides, there might be specific items people wanted to get, I tried some big online stores, no luck.

 

[alo100]

I didn't catch the fact that you are OUS. (You might want to fill in your profile so that we know where you're coming from) I'm sure that changes the shipping rates. My argument was for US shipping. I'll admit that I don't have any experience with OUS shipping rates.

When I made the Dive Ixx price quote online, I was using zip code of my home in Calif.
Let me ask, the online store also need to keep it's storage some where, right? So the shippment maybe cost different too, dep on where you live. I was using the Dive Ixx as an example (But the Dive Ixx does have a wide selections for Apeks, that I am happy to find out), if I am in Europe now, I will use it. Are you saying that most online stores can offer people better price no matter which state you're in?

One thing I am sure, I don't think all of them offer great price, most of the time when I travel outside US, I can find brand name products selling with a even better price.

Besides, there might be specific items people wanted to get, I tried some big online stores, no luck. This is the same as LDS though, need to search around sometimes.

 

[blindref757]

If I were an LDS owner, I'd love it if people shopped the net. Here are a few reasons why:

1. They could spend the money they save in my shop on training, air, and travel. A diver with his own equipment is a committed diver. Even if I didn't get the first $1500, I'd get his business for the rest of the diving career.

2. Service. When it's time for the annual on his reg, I'll likely be the one to service it. Since he didn't buy it from me, Cha Ching! That will be $50 please!

3. Referrals. If I treat him right (even though he didn't spend all his bank in my shop), when his new dive buddy, wife, kids, are looking for training--I've got their business too.

I think there are a lot of scare tactics being used on this board--from both sides. The internet retailers (except Larry) all squak about how the LDS is ripping off the uninformed customer...and the LDS guys rave about how their service is soooo priceless. Shame on both groups!

A LDS guy needs a steady flow of income to pay steady expenses like utilities, rent, etc. That steady flow rarely comes from people buying $800 regulators and $600 BC's. It comes from training and small items. If I need a clip or a retractor, I'm not going to buy it from the net--a $10 item and $5 to ship it is not a deal. There is a place in this market for both types of retailers.

 

[Carolina Diver]

I think in today's market a successful LDS might consider reducing overhead to only carry rental gear, small items, and demos. I would work a deal with Larry (Scuba Toys)and add an on-line shopping service in my store. Ensure that I could service everything he sells and help my customers pick the gear best suited for them. Saves them money, gets me steady service business, and customers like us, get the advice they need while shopping. Lessons and travel could be done as normal.

If I were really setup, I would have my own training pool and customers could try a demo of something they were looking at on-line! Imaging being able to do that.

I may have just talked myself into it...

 

[alo100]

All of these input make a lot of sense, I can get my dive equip, besides LDS, from online or even during travel from other dive shops, but as long as I dive locally, I need LDS to support my equip and give me good advice. Besides, it's very likely that I would to follow them for dive trips to places that I'm not familar with.

Then, yes, I'd hide away from any place that would give me bad experience.

 

[Trever]

If I were an LDS owner, I'd love it if people shopped the net. Here are a few reasons why:

1. They could spend the money they save in my shop on training, air, and travel. A diver with his own equipment is a committed diver. Even if I didn't get the first $1500, I'd get his business for the rest of the diving career.

2. Service. When it's time for the annual on his reg, I'll likely be the one to service it. Since he didn't buy it from me, Cha Ching! That will be $50 please!

3. Referrals. If I treat him right (even though he didn't spend all his bank in my shop), when his new dive buddy, wife, kids, are looking for training--I've got their business too.

I think there are a lot of scare tactics being used on this board--from both sides. The internet retailers (except Larry) all squak about how the LDS is ripping off the uninformed customer...and the LDS guys rave about how their service is soooo priceless. Shame on both groups!

A LDS guy needs a steady flow of income to pay steady expenses like utilities, rent, etc. That steady flow rarely comes from people buying $800 regulators and $600 BC's. It comes from training and small items. If I need a clip or a retractor, I'm not going to buy it from the net--a $10 item and $5 to ship it is not a deal. There is a place in this market for both types of retailers.

Cheers to blindref . The most important thing for a LDS to have is active divers. Have monthly dive trips even if it is just to a quarry. Buddy boards are great. Heck even social events in the winter to keep everyone talking about diving. just my modest opinion.

 

[bobv]

Here's my two cents worth...

Anything that my life depends on, I buy from my LDS, I want to touch it feel it, and know what I'm getting. Anything that requires fitting (wetsuits, drysuits,etc.) I buy at my LDS so I can try them on. The rest of the stuff I feel I can safely purchase on line with out too much hassle. I know that I am paying a little more at the LDS, but that's okay, I need and want him to stay in business. In our area there are only a few months of the year that they can figure on doing much business at all, so they have to make enough to carry them through the rest of the year. Other wise, they have to take on additional lines of non-diving equipment to keep the doors open in the winter months. Additionally, as someone else pointed out, the manufactures aren't doing much to help the little guy either, and the LDS is having a tough time making end's meet.
And there you have it.
Bob