Political Correctness...a disservice to divers?

[gcbryan]

It seems to be PC to automatically tell anyone asking for info to take a class.

This can discourage independent thinking and self reliance. Of course, it can also mask the fact that they person answering just doesn't know the answer as well.

It's common to dissuade divers from diving in any but the most optimal conditions but then how will they react if conditions get a little nasty while they are in the water some day?

I actually think that being too risk adverse or conservative is more dangerous than diving in less than optimal conditions in a planned way as a means of getting experience.

Often people are warned not to do certain dives unless conditions are perfect.

In this regard I think that we are creating an unbalanced class of diver. Highly experienced in one area but helpless without (and even with) taking classes in other areas.

I guess my point is that there is a fine line between just staying no in a non-thinking way (as in don't do anything and you won't get hurt) and actually giving good advice where it is needed.

There's no shortage of PC advice. Some times I think we need a non-PC or straight talking forum!.........

Can you dive without Nitrox...yes, can you dive air to 130 fsw and not go crazy ...yes, can you go diving on a windy, rainy, white cap day...sometimes yes, can you dive where there's a little current..yes...can you get your butt kicked a little ...yes...it's good for you!

We all know that we never stop learning, taking classes is fine, we all need to think and be careful, appropriate gasses are fine, all of the cliches and the obvious are covered pretty well. A little straight talk would be nice to hear every now and then as well.

 

[RJP]

There's no shortage of PC advice. Some times I think we need a non-PC or straight talking forum!.........

Right, so next time someone posts "I just got my goggles and flippers, and can't wait to get a rebreather. Until then, can I dive solo on the Andrea Doria, or should I try a cave first?" we'll all just tell them to go right ahead.



But seriously, you can't generalize on this topic. Just as often as not, the "straight talking" answer is "Dude, get some more training and experience..."

 

[Gombessa]

I think that lack of information about the person asking the question and the environment/conditions discussed leads to conservatism in answers, which isn't a bad thing. There are often too many gaps in a one-line (or one-page) internet scenario to confidently give a liberal answer.

Not everyone who says online that an OP should "take a class" or be wary of sporty conditions is giving the same rote response in person, where they can judge the experience and judgment of the diver personally, and also see the conditions being discussed with their own eyes. IMO, it's not much of a disconnect, and should serve as a reminder to talk to and dive with people experienced in the conditions you normally encounter, rather than seek the majority of your learning over the internet.

 

[paddler3d]

I think that we're such a litigious society that it is always a game of CYA and it is almost a knee jerk reaction to say take a class.

There are A LOT of stupid people out there who will do the dive on the Andrea Doria in swim goggles and NITROX. They die (personally it is Darwinian selection) and the poor guy on the internet who may have given advice that will get sued.

There is some other thread going on in the board about the legal responsibility of your dive buddy. The amount of lawyers that are chiming in that are saying that at a recreational level you are liable for your buddy is terrifying! I'm 2 seconds away from being a solo diver who just happens to be diving with this guy.

It is sad, but I don't think we can have that forum or format where it is real honest advice.

 

[meierdierck]

and just like someone seekinig medical advice on SB, some things should be left to professionals

you can read all the books, or posts online, but doing in a controlled evironment, builds the experience and confidence to handle situations, rather than just thowing them in and letting them learn the hard way. IMO we have classes because enough people already learned the hard way, teach the basics and why things are done the way they are,
much like in academia, we teach them how to look at the situation, how to process the information, and a little historicla context to add perspective,
OTOH- they do need to get out and slowly push the envelope themselves, once they have the general idea

 

[Walter]

Just as often as not, the "straight talking" answer is "Dude, get some more training and experience..."

True, but he didn't say we should never give that as advice, merely that we shouldn't "automatically" give that as advice.

 

[rstofer]

Many times, the poster of these kinds of questions is in the 0-24 dives category and the correct answer is ALWAYS 'take another class'. Let's face it, the divers with huge dive numbers aren't going to be asking any questions. They have already been there and done that.

Litigation is part of it but the other part is that the poster really is unqualified. Imagine making recommendations to a 0-24 diver re: diving solo because they think their buddy is useless. Not going to happen.

The other day a 0-24 diver asked something about deco stops for overstaying 130'. I gave the numbers from the US Navy Dive Table and was promptly criticized for providing the info. In this case, I took the question to be rhetorical. I didn't believe for one minute that the poster had any intention of doing the dive. He was just kind of poking at the boundaries.

Richard

 

[Hank49]

Most of the questions asked are subject to personal opinions so the op is in for a vast array of answers to almost any question they ask regarding "should I do this dive"?, or "how would you do this dive"? That's half the fun of Scubaboard to me. Reading all the heated exchanges about how or what.
And even though the advice may vary greatly, it can still almost all be good !! So the op still has to make his/her own choice.

 

[gcbryan]

Most of the questions asked are subject to personal opinions so the op is in for a vast array of answers to almost any question they ask regarding "should I do this dive"?, or "how would you do this dive"? That's half the fun of Scubaboard to me. Reading all the heated exchanges about how or what.
And even though the advice may vary greatly, it can still almost all be good !! So the op still has to make his/her own choice.

Good points but actually I was thinking that it's sometimes not heated enough! There's too many people giving the same answers and patting each other on the back.

Now, I'm not saying that it should be personal and if you have a temper you can't control then perhaps you shouldn't comment but for everyone else diversity of opinion is what makes a board interesting and ultimately educational.

To some of the other posters, of course no one is going to tell a brand new dive to go and dive solo or any of the other extreme examples.

 

[RonFrank]

As you are talking generalities, then so must I!

Take a Class. Dive with your buddy. Don't go to deep! Don't dive in the rain! Don't dive if it is windy! Don't dive in current! Don't dive if it's over your head! Buy low, sell high! A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush! And most important, wear a hat!

Seriously, the post was so general it's hard to add constructive comments, but I for one generally don't pull a punch. And.. honestly, there are a LOT of divers out there that would benefit from taking more training.

Advice provided on the internet is also different from someone standing in front of you at a dive site. I was diving the Grove (Key Largo) a couple summers back. The current was wicked, the vis was 10~15'. This was not a casual easy Grove dive... The Capt. did his best to warn divers that the conditions were tough, and to stay on the ship.

Two newbies went down, and immediately blew off the stern... they say they saw the ship, and then it was gone. Two hours later they were spotted by helicopters... sometimes it does not matter what people say one way or another, others are going to do what they intend to do regardless... and some others react in the opposite way.