Poor/dangerous behavior by instructor (not mine) -- what to do?

[ktkt]

EastEndDiver

1. I did say no (four times) and stuck to it.

2. My buddy and I stuck close, and we stayed outside the wreck but close to the group, as planned. He did do the swimthrough, but we signaled, and that was fine with me.


My issue is that after all my training and reading, which emphasizes never to dive past your training and experience, some instructor thinks "NO" means "Ask again in five minutes," especially when we're talking about a dive that really does require extra training he knew I didn't have. I found it wildly unprofessional, and I am admittedly angry.

Maybe I am supposed to just chalk it up to "there are assholes out there, ignore them the best you can", but this is really unacceptable behavior in my mind, so yeah, I reported it to his shop. At that level, he should know better.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

Bubbletrubble, part of this issue was that my buddy was one of his students (not for this particular dive, but in general), so the guy had some influence on him. When we started to go off and dive our own dive, the instructor chased us down and motioned him back, so I stayed close.

Certainly part of me thinks I should never have gone in the water with them, but it was supposed to be an easy dive with my buddy.

It's understandable that a recently certified student will have difficulty with making the transition from treating his instructor as his instructor, i.e., a teacher in a role of authority, to treating him as just another experienced diver who happens to be in the water at the same time.
It's also understandable that inexperienced divers may have difficulty with being assertive during a dive.

I regularly dive with a lot of very experienced divers, many of whom hold professional certs (MSDT, Instructor, AI, DM, etc.). Several of them served an instructional role in my dive training, but on our fun dives nowadays I treat them as I would any other experienced diver.

Notwithstanding the actions of the instructor, I would focus in on what could be improved within your own buddy team:

• Was it an appropriate response for your buddy to follow the instructor when he motioned him back?
• Was your buddy paying attention to your position/status while he followed the instructor? After all, his buddy responsibilities to you should far outweigh following another diver outside the team to see/do something cool.
• Did your buddy team remain together at all times? Each of you is carrying the other's emergency gas supply.
• Did communication occur within your buddy team when faced with a departure from the agreed upon dive plan?

All of this stuff should be discussed as part of the post-dive debriefing. If it wasn't discussed immediately after the dive, it's never too late to do so.

If you and your buddy choose to learn from this incident, this instructor may have actually done you guys a "favor."
Just another way of looking at things...

 

[EastEndDiver]

ktkt you said NO four times,I think that was smart of you.He asked you said no,that sounds reasonable.

Your buddy did the swim through and as you said "you signaled him that was fine".Ok what is the problem? Would you have preffered him NOT to do the swim through ?

I am in no way trying to protect the instructor but I am trying to see what he supposedly did wrong.

 

[gotair?]

I'm curious, were you left with out a buddy and for how long?

 

[Cliffpiper]

From what I'm understanding, you signaled to your buddy that it was fine that he did the swimthrough with the instructor. I'm assuming this is accurate. Personally, I always stick to my dive plan. If me and my buddy didn't plan a wreck swimthrough before the dive, then during the dive one of us wanted to do a penetration and the other didn't, I would have continued with the dive as planned and then planned another dive for a penetration. That's just the way I go about things.

There is plenty of time to dive and all it can take is one incident for something bad to happen, especially if you and your buddy separated. You never know when your gear may just crap out. I believe in "plan the dive, dive the plan".

If an instructor was being very pushy and pushing the limits of what you were comfortable with AND trained for, I wouldn't blame you for being a little upset. However, on the flipside, yea there are gonna be divers out there that may be divemasters or instructors that you will meet who just may be that kind of pushy person. I've met 'em. I'm sure many of us have.

I guess if this was during a course, there would be heavier repercussions. I'm not sure what else to say lol. I am just speaking from my perspective on what I would have done. I probably wouldn't dive with that instructor again. That's probably the extent I would have went. Then again, I don't dive with many people I'm not entirely familiar with.

Good luck with your future dives!

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Number one the instructor should not have done it. Reporting him to SDI is appropriate. Number you yoyu signaled your buddy it was ok? You two need to work on your own buddy skills. Or take the solo course because that is what you were doing. Your buddy communication and understanding of what a buddy is certainly needs some work.

 

[TSandM]

The PADI wreck specialty permits penetration on the fourth dive. But it is not permitted at night. A line is required.

 

[Hawkwood]

It's my understanding that the PADI wreck specialty is explicitly not a penetration course. If it's a PADI instructor doing penetration then you have a bigger issue...

You are incorrect. Penetration can be part of the PADI Wreck Specialty on Dive Four.

 

[mathauck0814]

You are incorrect. Penetration can be part of the PADI Wreck Specialty on Dive Four.

Thanks (also to Lynne) for the correction. My mistake.

 

[ktkt]

I am in no way trying to protect the instructor but I am trying to see what he supposedly did wrong.

He knew this was a dive requiring extra training, he knew I didn't have it. He should never have suggested I try it without training in the first place, and it's mind blowing that he kept asking after I had already said no multiple times. That is a major problem.

I did not have a problem with my buddy; I was never very far from him even during the swimthrough, which was pretty short and even had a little porthole in it. I could have reached him if necessary, no problem. I just didn't want to go through the narrow space myself, partly because I was not wearing a full wetsuit like the rest of them and didn't want to risk getting scratched up. My buddy did not drop into the ship with the instructor and other divers; he stayed with me and we looked at fish, etc. I would have preferred him to blow off the instructor when he chased us down for the swimthrough, but my buddy did make sure I was right with him, and we were in communication. If I could have a do-over, I would suggest that we don't enter the water with the rest of the group, but instead wait a bit and very clearly do our own thing on a different spot on the ship.

I definitely vowed never to dive with that instructor again.

Certainly I could have done things better, but the question remains -- what do you do when an instructor or divemaster is out of line? Of course, you do your best to safely get out of the situation first, but then what? I feel like if we just turn the other cheek and say "jerks will be jerks", that's nearly as bad as condoning their behavior, and it makes it more likely that things like this will keep happening.

Granted, I write compliment and complaint letters to companies all the time, and writing to the dive shop falls right in line with that. If this instructor was in my area, I would certainly tell anybody thinking of dealing with that shop my opinion of him, in person. But I didn't know if you should report this sort of thing to an instructor's training agency, so I was asking an honest question.