questionable instruction for kids

[LUBOLD8431]

HEY GUYS!!!!!!!!!

We all forgot something here!!!!!!!!!

WE ARE ALL WRONG AND GENESIS IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!!!!

Don't fight it, you will get no where. Resistance is futile. You will be frustrated. Genesis will not listen to reason, and never will. He is always right, and we are wrong.


He's not an instructor, but he seems to know everything about standards, and whats best for a student.

Dude, I'm glad you went to sleep...

 

[AliKat]

I worked with an instructor that would not work with 10-12 year olds unless a parent took the class along with them. So, certified or not, at least one parent had to agree to be a "student" along with the child.

 

[Phish-phood]

This all sounds a bit dodgy to me.

Firstly in this day and age how can anyone risk being on their own with children. Working with children you should always have more than one adult present if for no other reason than for protection for yourself. In Scouts we are not allowed to have less than two leaders present at any time and they try to have one male and one female at all times.

Secondly if he is planning on taking these kids in the water on his own then that is downright dangerous and I for one would not trust him with any kids of mine. Even if he has only two kids at a time he should have a DM with him in the water because what if something happens to the instructor in the water, who is going to help him! There should also be surface cover, someone to check the divers in and out of the water and keep time etc, generally be lookout for the group. If something happens and they are longer than expected in the water - who is going to know if the instructor hasn't taken the responsibility for making sure he is adequately backed-up?

I can understand why he may not want parents or other tag-alongs in the water with him because unless he has dived with them before or they have a professional qualification then instructors will almost certainly write them into there class as students. Plus they can be a distraction to kids who invariably end up worrying more about pleasing their parents than following the course.

Maybe he just meant that he wouldn't allow any tag-alongs in the water as I cannot see any instructor being reckless enough to take a group into the water without the support he needs and should have. Frankly if he is that reckless I would have no hesitation in reporting him because it is only a matter of time before he has an icident somewhere along the line.

 

[bdmod]

Just to clear up any confusion on the original question I posed to our panel....

The DM insists on being the only adult period. No other dive instructors, no parents, no chaperones, just him. He told me he takes all 6-8 kids down for the open water dive. Nobody remains topside or along side.

We won't be using this dive center, for instruction, supplies, or even air.

Brad

 

[MikeS]

Brad,

Unless the instructor has adequately addressed all of your concerns, I think you’re smart to look elsewhere. Could it be that he was just doing a poor job of telling you he did not want parent "tag alongs?"

In my limited experience as a DM Intern, every “tag along” I have observed has increased the Instructors’ task loading and complicated the situation, both in and out of the water. If I were ever to become an instructor, I would generally restrict “tag alongs” from certification dives. However, I would also try to have a DM available to lead them on a separate dive at the same time. Doing so would allow them to participate together in the social aspect of diving while limiting interference and the tendency for new divers to become, buddy dependant.

Genesis once bubbled...
You've got the entire concept here backwards. There is no scuba "license" (although one could reasonably conclude from your posts here that you'd love to see one mandated and enforced by the government at gunpoint!) You don't need to be certified - it may be smart, but its not required. The student is the one setting the requirements, since its their money. You don't like the conditions, you don't get their money. It is really that simple.

As DM Intern, the thought of a “tag along” with you're attitude and bearing is a nightmare.

Yes, it is really that simple. ut:

Mike

 

[Epinephelus]

bdmod once bubbled...
The DM insists on being the only adult period. No other dive instructors, no parents, no chaperones, just him. He told me he takes all 6-8 kids down for the open water dive. Nobody remains topside or along side.

This is nonsensical. Where is this shop and who is this DM? They should either be invited in here to clarify and defend their policies or reported to their agency so they can clarify it there. We don't need to leave this kind of thing in the dark - let's get it all out in the open and get it cleared up. Someone's life may depend on it.
E.

 

[scubaroyster]

Here - Here on everything Mike Ferrara said.

Nothing to add. Except it all depends on the child and the adult parent. Some of those adult parents relly need to take a review. I don't like the experienced parent demonstrating bad habits to their child student being taught properly.

In every case, certified parents wanting to dive with their child undergoing training readily agreed and paid for a review (pool and in water) concurrent with the class. They also understand that they may not get to buddy with their child, but I try. In every case, OW dive 4, they will dive with their parent. I usually have two to three DMs assisting me on every class (that's the reward for taking the time to mentor DMCs).

 

[ckharlan66]

bdmod once bubbled...


The DM insists on being the only adult period. No other dive instructors, no parents, no chaperones, just him.

Brad

A DM is taking a bunch of uncertified kids out on a boat unsupervised? I would talk to the agency immediately. If this is the case and it isn't a misunderstanding then it is even worse than an instuctor doing it. It is also violating good since by the shop, DM, and any parent that would allow thier child to go.

Chad

 

[Diver0001]

bdmod once bubbled...
Just to clear up any confusion on the original question I posed to our panel....

The DM insists on being the only adult period. No other dive instructors, no parents, no chaperones, just him. He told me he takes all 6-8 kids down for the open water dive. Nobody remains topside or along side.

We won't be using this dive center, for instruction, supplies, or even air.

Brad

Is he a DM?????? In your original post you said he was an instructor. Now I'm confused.

In either case it's looks like he's not following standards.

R..

 

[bdmod]

Yes, the course is taught by a DM.

Also, just to clear up any confusion....I'm not insisting on being my son's buddy. My problem is the whole idea that only one adult will be on board - for all the safety issues (one drifts off, one bugs back up to the surface) especially since we're talking about children. And the issue of potential molestation weighs in as well.

One post asked for the name of the dive shop, but I'm withholding that info. If you folks think I should report the shop to the 'agency' that's what I'll do, I just don't know where to start....

Brad