questionable instruction for kids

[ckharlan66]

the website for the agency should have a phone number or E-mail address that you could use to start the process.

If you post what agency it is (I understand not wanting to reveal the shop name) then I would bet that with the knowledge on the board that you will get some good recommendations as to how to handle the report with that specific agency.

Chad

 

[Diver0001]

bdmod once bubbled...
Yes, the course is taught by a DM.

Also, just to clear up any confusion....I'm not insisting on being my son's buddy. My problem is the whole idea that only one adult will be on board - for all the safety issues (one drifts off, one bugs back up to the surface) especially since we're talking about children. And the issue of potential molestation weighs in as well.

One post asked for the name of the dive shop, but I'm withholding that info. If you folks think I should report the shop to the 'agency' that's what I'll do, I just don't know where to start....

Brad

Ok, if you're *sure* about this then you should inform "the agency". You should also be *sure* that he actually did what he said he was gonig to do. This is important because talk can't be punished.

R..

 

[MikeFerrara]

Somewhere there must be messed up facts here. No DM can sign off on a "diving" certification even if they are crazy enough to sell a fake class because that's what it would amount to.

As far as I know the only things that any agency allows to be tought by a DM are skin diving and first aid. Some agencies will allow non-instructors or an AI to teach non-diving classes.

I don't remember but PADI MAY allow an AI to teach peak performance buoyancy. BTW, I don't remember because it doesn't matter to me cause I don't have an AI. LOL

 

[Bonnet Ray]

I think you have got to report this guy. There are too many risks being taken (diving and child protection). If you have misunderstood then there should be an opportunity for an explanation to be given and the guy to learn how to explain things in a better way. If there are really problems then poor practice can be stopped.

You are not happy to send your kids along but there maybe other parents less aware than yourselves who need to know.

 

[diverbrian]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
Somewhere there must be messed up facts here. No DM can sign off on a "diving" certification even if they are crazy enough to sell a fake class because that's what it would amount to.

As far as I know the only things that any agency allows to be tought by a DM are skin diving and first aid. Some agencies will allow non-instructors or an AI to teach non-diving classes.

I don't remember but PADI MAY allow an AI to teach peak performance buoyancy. BTW, I don't remember because it doesn't matter to me cause I don't have an AI. LOL

The agency that I am certified with combines the AI and DM roles. This is one reason that the internship takes forever. So, once I get my cert., I could possibly teach First Aid (with special certification), Scuba Rangers (with special certification/ background check). Our bread and butter classes for assistants are Scuba Skills Updates and snorkeling (which our instructors don't want to spend the time on).

This guy sounds very dubious to me and needs to be checked out. He either gave a poor explanation or is operating things unsafely on a grand scale. Either way, this should be investigated before someone gets hurt.

 

[Rick Murchison]

bdmod once bubbled...
One post asked for the name of the dive shop, but I'm withholding that info.

Why? Why would you protect a dangerous practice?
If these guys are doing what you say they're doing we need to warn the public before a child gets hurt or killed. You have a duty to inform the diving world and the agency concerned.
Yesterday.
Rick

 

[Diver0001]

Rick Murchison once bubbled...

Why? Why would you protect a dangerous practice?
If these guys are doing what you say they're doing we need to warn the public before a child gets hurt or killed. You have a duty to inform the diving world and the agency concerned.
Yesterday.
Rick

It's a good idea not to say the name until you're sure. What if the whole thing turns out to be a big misunderstanding?

R..

 

[Epinephelus]

Diver0001 once bubbled...
It's a good idea not to say the name until you're sure. What if the whole thing turns out to be a big misunderstanding?

No, it isn't a good idea at all.
I say again:
This is nonsensical. Where is this shop and who is this DM? They should either be invited in here to clarify and defend their policies or reported to their agency so they can clarify it there. We don't need to leave this kind of thing in the dark - let's get it all out in the open and get it cleared up. Someone's life may depend on it.
----------
This is not the time to play little games with sea lawyering. If the case has been accurately portrayed there is something very dark and ominous going on, something potentially very bad, very damaging. Turn on the lights! Turn them on now!
E.

 

[daylight]

Brad,
Who are you talking with at the shop? Make sure you have your facts correct. Then take appropiate action.
I wouldn't even try to take that many kids in a pool by myself let alone an open water environment. When I have worked with Scuba Rangers, they are like herding cats!
Since I don't personally agree with certifying 10 year olds, I won't get into that issue.
This scenario is sooo far out in left field or "dodgy" as previously posted, I would make sure I have a correct understanding of the class procedures and standards. I would talk with the owner or manager to verify the class/camp plan. Since you didn't include any info in your profile, it's difficult to determine what to suggest.
Wierd,
Larry

 

[Diver0001]

Epinephelus once bubbled...

No, it isn't a good idea at all.
I say again:
This is nonsensical. Where is this shop and who is this DM? They should either be invited in here to clarify and defend their policies or reported to their agency so they can clarify it there. We don't need to leave this kind of thing in the dark - let's get it all out in the open and get it cleared up. Someone's life may depend on it.
----------
This is not the time to play little games with sea lawyering. If the case has been accurately portrayed there is something very dark and ominous going on, something potentially very bad, very damaging. Turn on the lights! Turn them on now!
E.

With all due respect, most people here, myself included, are neither qualified or competent to pass judgement on this. bdmod came here asking for advice and some people already told him that it looks dodgy and advised him to report it. He would also be (and has been) well advised to go back to the shop and discuss it with the owner to make sure that he's got his facts straight. It looks like the instructor/dm/owner in question owes an explanation to the parents and to the certifying authority. The suggestions of impropriety towards the children may be based more in fear than anything but can be dealt with via the police if necessary. There are laws and proper authorities for that too.

And as far as I know, with the exception of bdmod we are not the parents, we are not the agency and we are not the police.

I mean, even assuming that everything we've heard his is completely correct and there is no misunderstanding, just how badly do you think a bunch of 1/2 anonymous cyber-vigilantes spread all over the world with no formal or moral authority over him is going to impress the instructor/dm in question?

Bmod showed excellent judgement in not allowing his child to participate. There is no reason to think that he won't show excellent judgement in how he uses the advice we gave him too. He will decide what to do.

R..