Scuba training costs..........

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My wife and I certified last year. We paid 225.00 for our OW course. This included our student kit (book, tables) and the basic gear (BC, Regs, Tank w Air), and pool time. We had to pay an additional 75.00 for our open water weekend check out dives, which included the above mentioned basic gear, a 7mm exposure suit, weights, and 2 tanks each and free fills for the weekend.

We had to purchase (before the first pool session) our fins, mask, snorkel, and weight belt. (Approx 260.00).

So our total course costs ran 560.00 CDN.

Similarly,

For our AOW, the course cost (5 dives) cost was 125.00, which included the AOW book. But then there was the extra 75.00 for the weekend gear rental (exposure suit, BC, tanks w free refills) and 65.00 for the day 2 charter service. You were required to supply your own compass, timing device, and dive lights. (Another 360.00) by the time you were done. So what was "marketed" as a 125.00 course, actually cost closer to 625.00.

So before even buying a BC, exposure suit, or tank, we spent almost 1200.00 to get certified up to AOW.

Not sure if this is typical, but from my own personal view, if they had told me, upfront, what the total cost was, we wouldn't have changed our minds (cost would not have been a deterrent), but we may have shopped around first, to find out the best instructor.

A DI is a DI, on paper (meaning that they all hold the same certification) at least, whether or not they’ve been teaching for 1 month or 10 years. Now of there was a required re-cert period, and level or ranking system for DIs then the shopping would be easier as would the marketing.

For example, I am a contract technical writer with 12 years experience. I charge (for the sake of discussion) say 65.00 an hour. A junior would probably charge about 30.00 an hour. I don't work down to a junior's level (it’s unfair to the junior, and reduces my market value, and do not expect a junior to hold himself out as a senior writer. In this case the client can select, based on their needs, what level of experience they want, and how much they want to pay.

In the dive world, there is no official ranking for DIs so you never really know what you're getting. You can ask for his (or hers) experience, and references, but these are subjective. If there was a basic DI level 1, then say an Advanced DI level 2 (based on years of experience and retesting scores, added DI training, number of divers certified etc), up to a Master DI then the LDS could market their courses based on the DI's level. A 99.00 course would get you a level 1 DI and bare bones training. The higher the ranking DI, the higher the course costs.

Then let the students decide who they want, and what they are willing to pay, for their dive training. This would be truly applying a free market to dive instruction with the consumer supporting multilevel pricing based on competency, experience, etc. The way it is now, DIs are undercutting each other, and the end result is an overall lowering of the intrinsic value of the work.

Perhaps some small structure would be in order, but that’s just my opinion.
 
TheRedHead:
Premixed? <adding more characters>

I only buy helium and oxygen from them but they'll blend anything you want.
 
Storm:
A DI is a DI, on paper (meaning that they all hold the same certification) at least, whether or not they&#8217;ve been teaching for 1 month or 10 years. Now of there was a required re-cert period, and level or ranking system for DIs then the shopping would be easier as would the marketing.

For example, I am a contract technical writer with 12 years experience. I charge (for the sake of discussion) say 65.00 an hour. A junior would probably charge about 30.00 an hour. I don't work down to a junior's level (it&#8217;s unfair to the junior, and reduces my market value, and do not expect a junior to hold himself out as a senior writer. In this case the client can select, based on their needs, what level of experience they want, and how much they want to pay.

In the dive world, there is no official ranking for DIs so you never really know what you're getting. You can ask for his (or hers) experience, and references, but these are subjective. If there was a basic DI level 1, then say an Advanced DI level 2 (based on years of experience and retesting scores, added DI training, number of divers certified etc), up to a Master DI then the LDS could market their courses based on the DI's level. A 99.00 course would get you a level 1 DI and bare bones training. The higher the ranking DI, the higher the course costs.

Then let the students decide who they want, and what they are willing to pay, for their dive training. This would be truly applying a free market to dive instruction with the consumer supporting multilevel pricing based on competency, experience, etc. The way it is now, DIs are undercutting each other, and the end result is an overall lowering of the intrinsic value of the work.

Perhaps some small structure would be in order, but that&#8217;s just my opinion.

Storm buddy, how are you going to 'rank' an instructor?

Why would a shop specify a ranking system of their instructors, and then tell the public? I can imagine the fun everyone would have with that.

If you looking for a 'ranking' system with an agency, say Padi, there already is a quasi one in place. When you're first cert's your an OWSI,......after X number of students taught etc, you pay another fee and your now a MSDT ('Master Scuba Diver Trainer') Oooh sounds good doesn't it?

Sounds like this guy is a more senior member of the club,....more time in, more students taught etc etc......does it make him any more qualified?

I dunno, what way do you mean qualified?

Then (or concurrently) you get to be "Specialty certified"...

Does that make them higher in the ranking process and 'worth' more too?

I dunno,....depends on how you mean qualified.

You can get any of these things by simply spending the requisite time in, and teaching a minimal amount of people.

Personally all I see it is, as it's another way to slice and dice the pie to obtain more money from the instructors themselves, in the exact way it is done to the students as well.

It's pretty obvious people are driven by 'ranking' and card owneship, and the more steps you put in a process, the more funds you'll reap fraom that process.

It's a way of plucking the goose bare with a minimal amount of squaking.......a little at a time.

Oh yeah, I'm just an OWSI there bud, cause I ain't paying the fee to get to the level of the rank of my brothers........so for that lack of a $5 card from an agency....I guess I'm not worth as much to you :)

Oh yeah, the specialties are again a substantial expense for an instructor to have as well, but that's that slice and dice pie situation again. Can you imagine that I can't teach a diver under some agencies how to dry suit dive? Or deep dive? But a rec diver who's never ventured beyond the scope of their agency can do just that for a few dollars?

Mind you I am not against training someone in a 'specialty' that I do not 'own' from an official agency either. Again, this means they don't ge the plastic card at the end of the day either. Believe it or nto that matters to a few people. I think people have been seriously hosed.

regards
 
MikeFerrara:
To create a market for cards?

Can I rent a boat without a dive certification and go out and dive off of it? I'll bet I can. Can I hire a boat and a capt, tell him where to park the boat and jump off of it with scuba gear? I'll bet I can.

Do you know that I can buy any gas mix I want from a "gas supplier" and they don't care what I do with the gas and that they don't know or care anything about diving certifications? I can.

The only place that I have to show a card to buy gas is at a dive shop. The only boat that wants to see a diving certification is a "dive boat". The common thread is their agency affiliations.

You've been had. LOL

Seems to me that enough "certified" divers, who are supposed to know what they are doing are dying from stupid things. If you think it is ok, and it sounds like you do, that we buy/sell dive gear, and learn on our own, as we go, then that is fine. Don't start crying highway robbery when insurance companies clamp down even more on this stuff. I suppose you think a drivers licence is just a government scam too then eh?

Bill
 
owlbill:
Seems to me that enough "certified" divers, who are supposed to know what they are doing are dying from stupid things. If you think it is ok, and it sounds like you do, that we buy/sell dive gear, and learn on our own, as we go, then that is fine. Don't start crying highway robbery when insurance companies clamp down even more on this stuff. I suppose you think a drivers licence is just a government scam too then eh?

Bill
You are, I fear, completely missing Mike's point.
 
Well, I will go back and read it again then.
 
Scuba_Steve:
Storm buddy, how are you going to 'rank' an instructor?

Why would a shop specify a ranking system of their instructors, and then tell the public? I can imagine the fun everyone would have with that.

If you looking for a 'ranking' system with an agency, say Padi, there already is a quasi one in place. When you're first cert's your an OWSI,......after X number of students taught etc, you pay another fee and your now a MSDT ('Master Scuba Diver Trainer') Oooh sounds good doesn't it?

Sounds like this guy is a more senior member of the club,....more time in, more students taught etc etc......does it make him any more qualified?

I dunno, what way do you mean qualified?

Then (or concurrently) you get to be "Specialty certified"...

Does that make them higher in the ranking process and 'worth' more too?

I dunno,....depends on how you mean qualified.

You can get any of these things by simply spending the requisite time in, and teaching a minimal amount of people.

Personally all I see it is, as it's another way to slice and dice the pie to obtain more money from the instructors themselves, in the exact way it is done to the students as well.

It's pretty obvious people are driven by 'ranking' and card owneship, and the more steps you put in a process, the more funds you'll reap fraom that process.

It's a way of plucking the goose bare with a minimal amount of squaking.......a little at a time.

Oh yeah, I'm just an OWSI there bud, cause I ain't paying the fee to get to the level of the rank of my brothers........so for that lack of a $5 card from an agency....I guess I'm not worth as much to you :)

Oh yeah, the specialties are again a substantial expense for an instructor to have as well, but that's that slice and dice pie situation again. Can you imagine that I can't teach a diver under some agencies how to dry suit dive? Or deep dive? But a rec diver who's never ventured beyond the scope of their agency can do just that for a few dollars?

Mind you I am not against training someone in a 'specialty' that I do not 'own' from an official agency either. Again, this means they don't ge the plastic card at the end of the day either. Believe it or nto that matters to a few people. I think people have been seriously hosed.

regards

Steve to tell you the truth I donlt knw how it could be worked properly, I'm only posing a "possibility". Some way to better distinguish who you are taking you're training from, and a method to more readily identify his/her level of expertice and experieince.

Even it's a public searchable registry of DIs within an agency where profiles are kept so one could at least do some due dilligence to determine if the guy about to take you, a loved one, or a friend down is the best DI, in your local market, you can find.

At least then, when you are tryng to figure out of that one course that is several hunderd more than its competition is worth the extra cash.


Workopolis for DIs perhaps :wink:
 
speaking for myself, i dont "give away" courses. when i teach the courses are usually priced on the upper end of the locally going rate. now, i have a fulltime job and dont depend on the money. i dont barter or make deals. thats my price and its your choice to pay it or go to somebody cheaper. i just think that you pay for good training, the same as you pay for good food or a good car (well maybe not the best examples).
anyway, you get a discount with me for a group and thats it.
i usually dont worry about "cheapo offers" in the neighborhood. you get what you pay for. if somebody around here starts to charge more than i do - i start to worry :).
after all, i offer top training, if you charge more than i do - does that mean you have a better, more comprehensive program that allows that price??? if so, i have to step up a notch - otherwise just cool, the guys with the cheap deals come, are around for a short while and disappear. there training is exactly worth what they charge - nothing!
 
MikeFerrara:
If we did away with this card and agency nonsense instructors could sell real instruction to those who wanted it rather than marketing the access that comes with cards...kneeling on the bottom for a total of 80 minutes $99...a real diving class $1000

I personally,would love that!

Mike,it's nice to see we still agree on this. I'm giving this thing one more chance. I have a question for you and I'll be PMing you within the week.

Ron
 
MikeFerrara:
To create a market for cards?

Can I rent a boat without a dive certification and go out and dive off of it? I'll bet I can. Can I hire a boat and a capt, tell him where to park the boat and jump off of it with scuba gear? I'll bet I can.

Do you know that I can buy any gas mix I want from a "gas supplier" and they don't care what I do with the gas and that they don't know or care anything about diving certifications? I can.

The only place that I have to show a card to buy gas is at a dive shop. The only boat that wants to see a diving certification is a "dive boat". The common thread is their agency affiliations.

You've been had. LOL

Praxair has never asked me for my welding cert and I know people with boats that don't have a clue about diving....

Ron
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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