Student brings BP/W to OW class.

[Akimbo]

I took my Rescue class in a backplate and Hog harness. It flummoxed my instructors, because they had no clue how to get somebody out of the gear (other than cut the harness, which is always an option)…

That is one of many reasons I am a proponent of allowing the shoulder webbing to slide through the backplate… pulling the belly-band tightens the shoulders. I know it varies by body type, but I can be lifted by a rescue/deadman ring (center back lift D-ring) and not fall out. I only use a crotch strap when commercial diving code requires it.

It is a simple matter to release the buckle on the belly-band and pull slack into the shoulder straps for donning, doffing, or rescue. There are several tech plates with rollers and slide options.

Besides, there are a lot of jacket BCs that are not don't have shoulder adjustment.

 

[Quero]

I took my Rescue class in a backplate and Hog harness. It flummoxed my instructors, because they had no clue how to get somebody out of the gear (other than cut the harness, which is always an option). I could see an OW instructor being very nervous about a student in gear they felt they didn't know how to remove in an emergency. Backplate setups can be a little challenging with wetsuits and very heavy weight belts, too (as I know from annoying personal experience with students!).


I do have to say that, having participated in a number of OW classes over the year or so, I totally understand instructors who don't want to take on any even perceived increase in complexity or challenge in teaching OW. Teaching those classes can be a truly daunting thing, and you take on a huge responsibility for people. If someone doesn't feel he can do a safe job with students using a certain kind of gear, I think he'd be well within his rights to refuse to do it. If the student wants to use that equipment, he needs to go find an instructor who is comfortable with it.

The first time I had a student show up for a class in a bp/w was for a rescue course, and he was a large man. Although I was familiar with the equipment, having taken some low-level tech courses, I didn't feel confident about teaching emergency gear removal procedures in a Rescue course, particularly since there was such a lot of practice of it in the scenarios (this was quite a while ago before the Rescue course was revamped). So I went to my friends who run a tech shop here and got the information I needed. Even so, in this and subsequent courses I've led, including DM courses, I have found that getting a diver out of a bp/w in a rescue scenario is noticeably more complex than with a jacket-style BCD, and even more so if the victim/diver is super-sized.

So yes, I agree with those who have pointed out that the objections that some instructors might have stem from the added complexity, and while all of these objections can be overcome with education and familiarity, it remains more complex. Regardless, a student diver ought to be able to take classes at any level in the equipment s/he plans to use while fun diving.

 

[Some X Dry]

I feel I must take issue with blanket statements that make all new student divers out to be incapable of understanding or learning other equipment configurations during an OW class. Statements like it is "easier on the new student diver" for one. The fact that the standards are at the lowest common denominator all ready to enable a 12 year old to learn OW is enough to carry the occasional learning disabled adult student through. If anyone seems to want things easier it is the minimum standard instructors who turn out minimum standard divers.

I commend those Instructors that understand and embrace the concept of further education for themselves with the students. To be not only a teacher but also a mentor. Perhaps part of instructor training should include an essay written on these qualities?

 

[cgvmer]

So my question for those that view removal of Bp/w as more complex in a rescue class, are you only teaching your students to assist non-bp/w users?

 

[Quero]

So my question for those that view removal of Bp/w as more complex in a rescue class, are you only teaching your students to assist non-bp/w users?

To answer your question properly would require that you define exactly what you consider to be "teaching students to assist" bp/w users. I believe I do teach my students to assist these divers, but I won't "import" a bp/w diver for purposes of demonstration in a rescue class any more than I will make sure that in an OW course there's a demo of AAS use with an Air2. What I will do is discuss different gear configurations and alert students that if they are diving with people who have gear they have not practiced with, they should have a thorough conversation with the users of that equipment to make sure they know what to do in an emergency, whether that emergency involves air sharing, removal of the scuba unit, dumping of weight systems or whatever.

 

[caseybird]

Of course, in a real rescue scenario you would just cut the da--ed thing off.

 

[DevonDiver]

I believe I do teach my students to assist these divers, but I won't "import" a bp/w diver for purposes of demonstration in a rescue class any more than I will make sure that in an OW course there's a demo of AAS use with an Air2.

I understand that it would be impractical to "import" different kit into the class just for the sake of demonstration; but I got the impression that you 'didn't allow' this equipment, if a student owned it and brought it to a class?

What I will do is discuss different gear configurations and alert students that if they are diving with people who have gear they have not practiced with, they should have a thorough conversation with the users of that equipment to make sure they know what to do in an emergency, whether that emergency involves air sharing, removal of the scuba unit, dumping of weight systems or whatever.

Agreed. Teaching proper adherence to a comprehensive buddy system, including the need to confirm gear specific protocols within a buddy check, is the obvious solution to any variation of equipment used.

But.... If an instructor is going to advise their students to do that post-course, I don't see why that principle cannot be demonstrated on the course itself, by the instructor showing how common principles and procedures can be applied to any recreational equipment configuration.

 

[Quero]

I understand that it would be impractical to "import" different kit into the class just for the sake of demonstration; but I got the impression that you 'didn't allow' this equipment, if a student owned it and brought it to a class?

I don't know how you got that impression since I specifically and explicitly stated that I had not only allowed it but embraced it.

Agreed. Teaching proper adherence to a comprehensive buddy system, including the need to confirm gear specific protocols within a buddy check, is the obvious solution to any variation of equipment used.

But.... If an instructor is going to advise their students to do that post-course, I don't see why that principle cannot be demonstrated on the course itself, by the instructor showing how common principles and procedures can be applied to any recreational equipment configuration.

If the equipment is in evidence, sure. Otherwise such a demonstration would entail specifically introducing various types of equipment into a class where nobody was using it. You're going in circles.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I just finished a Rescue class where both students have only ever worn BP/W since about the time they completed their OW training. Such students aren't that uncommon here. We did all the scenarios in the equipment they're using. I had "victims" in both singles and doubles for them to practice on. I'm hoping that by my next Rescue class, I'll have a "victim" in sidemount for them to practice on as well. Now that there's a local instructor teaching recreational divers how to use sidemount, we're going to be seeing it here more often.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Majickyl]

Here's my experience with this...

In my open water class, gear rental was free. You got a jacket BC, regs, and AL80, set it up, and hit the pool. None of the 14-or-so students (yes, it was a big class, no need to go off topic on that...) questioned it. Well except for me.

The diving bug bit me hard. I finished my OW texts within 2 weeks of starting the 4-week class and, being a central Florida gal and wanting to be a better diver, started in on "Doing it Right: The Fundamentals of Better Diving". Whoa, apparently there's another way to skin this cat...

So, sufficiently brainwashed (I kid, I kid), show up to my next class early with a backplate and harness I picked up on Craigslist for super cheap (no wing) and ask my instructor if he could explain to me how it all goes together. He's pretty accepting and, to my surprise, lets me borrow a wing he has lying around.

Then he asks, "You wanna try a steel tank?"
"Sure!"
"Wait, that's a DIN. You need a different reg. You wanna try this one?" (hands me a $1500 Titanium Atomic reg)...
"Uh, yeah, sure!" It was like Christmas!

I hit the pool all decked out and remember descending and immediately being "thrown" into a horizontal position and thinking "Oh, THAT'S what they mean by TRIM!" And I never went back.

I was very grateful to have an accommodating instructor who didn't mind my being the oddball in the class. He had much the same attitude as most instructors who have commented. It's a BCD, it's not rocket science. (Or neuroscience ) He dove one, so he was plenty familiar. No big deal for him... but great experience for me.