tangible benefits of BP/W over quality back inflate jacket

[Ana]

I'll sell you my Ranger cheap, which has not been in the water once since I got a BP/W.

There you go!!! see... was it so terrible getting a BC whatever type, then getting another and sell the 1st one cheap? It gives you karma points and benefits a new diver.

win win situation

 

[flots am]

We could argue about this day and night, but I have extensive experience diving with both a BP/W and a jacket BC, and I'm a well trained diver. I know the differences from personal experience. If you're not able to perceive them yourself, well, that's your experience, not mine.

OK. I'll bite.

What's the difference between a properly weighted and trimmed diver in a BP/W and a properly weighted and trimmed diver in a Jacket BC?

flots.

 

[ttrimble]

Thanks everyone for all the replies. Sorry I've been away from my own thread so long, I had to leave town on
short notice over the weekend. I have a pretty good idea what I need to do now, but I'll answer the questions asked of me.

What kind of diving do I do?

I mostly do warm water diving when I travel. I live in Colorado, but haven't really got into the lake diving around
here after my cert dives for open water. I only have 17 dives right now, almost a year after OW. I like the idea of packing light, and would certainly take any BCD with me on dive trips in the future. Sometimes I find myself in a part of the world for other reasons, and have done some diving on the side. I'm not sure if I would tote my own gear in the future on that kind of deal, but packing a BP/W doesn't seem like nearly as big of deal as lugging my giant fins along.

What got me interested in the BP/W setup to begin with?

In my open water class, almost as soon as I examined the jacket BCD and weight belt, I thought this seemed way more complicated than it needed to be. I have some experience with (non-aquatic) military web gear, and thought there should be a diving equivelant. I didn't think about it much then as I wasn't the kind of guy who has his own gear at that point. On a recent trip to the Carribean, I got an OK jacket, but the weight belt was really crappy. It had about 2.5 feet of extra material past the crummy plastic buckle, and on the last dive it fell off at the bottom of the drop line. I was able to put it back on, but I just thought there was no need for that. So I figured if I didn't want that to happen again, I should at least get my own high grade belt, but kind of figured "in for the penny, in for the pound" and started off reading about good BCDs here, and found out that a lot of people do use something alot simpler, the BP/W.

I went to a well stocked LDS, but they didn't have any BP/W's. So, I figured I'm going to have to buy my own on the internet. Well, I thought, I'm not really the type of guy who is going to know how to do that, especially when you start mixing and matching. The LDS did have a Zeagle stilletto, and a catalog with the beefier Zeagle ranger. I thought, well, this is pretty slim and "tactical" and I know Zeagle is a quality maker, and this would be ready to kick ass out of the box. I almost had them order me one, but decided to hold off. As much fun as it would be, I thought maybe I don't need something in a few days time, and maybe I can research a good BP/W set up if I invest plenty of time reading reviews.

In the mean time, I found out about another Scuba shop outside the metro area which carries Halcyon products. As it turns out, they have a really helpful staff and I can rent a Halcyon setup to try in the pool, which I'm going to do soon. I don't know if this is the brand I want, but at least a can try the BP/W style.

Furthermore, I found out that this shop also, on occasion, offers a GUE fundies class that I would be interested in.
Not as a gateway to Tec or Caves at the moment, but just to make me a better OW diver. The PADI OW and especially AOW class (I now know some terms for fish and some terms for parts of a boat) were a little light.
They were fine for most, but I figure if you're going to do something, may as well be really good at it. At any rate, seems you need a BP/W for this class, and this will be a factor in my purchase.

Bottom line, it seems to me that if one is willing to invest time in the initial purchase and setup of a BP/W, there's really not too many drawbacks, if any. One advantage that I don't fully buy is how it can "grow with you". IMHO, a lot of people here are talking about multiple wings and different plates; it seems like you've got a situation like "I own Abe Lincoln's orriginal hatchet. I've only had to replace the handle twice and the head once." That said, the BC/W is still more versitile than anything else, and it seems in hard core diving, another BCD is small beer when you're talking dry suit, a bunch of expensive lights, many regs, etc.

Again, thanks very much to everyone who posted. This is a great board, and it's nice to get information from
people who don't have anything for sale.

 

[Codyjp]

The BP/W crowd is just louder. Over 90% of BC sales are actually jackets.

Try a few styles in a pool, and buy what you want, and ignore everybody on the internet.

You'll be happier.

flots.

So in order to follow your advice he'd have to ignore everything you've said in this thread. Hummm... I'm confused.

 

[flots am]

So in order to follow your advice he'd have to ignore everything you've said in this thread. Hummm... I'm confused.

Why? My first post recommended that he try them all in the pool and make his own decision and my later posts said that either style works fine, and in some cases "no BC" works fine too.

flots.

 

[fnfalman]

I mostly do warm water diving when I travel. I live in Colorado, but haven't really got into the lake diving around
here after my cert dives for open water. I only have 17 dives right now, almost a year after OW.

If you really enjoy diving then you need to bite the bullet and do the lake dives. Maybe not all the times but often enough to keep your skills sharp. I've recently relocated from SoCal to Idaho. Lake diving is a lot less fun, but a) it beats a poke in the eye with a pointy stick, and b) it keeps my skills sharp. Diving skills are perishable skills rather like marksmanship. You may remember the basic theory in your head, but your muscle memories are gone if you don't practice.

I like the idea of packing light, and would certainly take any BCD with me on dive trips in the future. Sometimes I find myself in a part of the world for other reasons, and have done some diving on the side. I'm not sure if I would tote my own gear in the future on that kind of deal, but packing a BP/W doesn't seem like nearly as big of deal as lugging my giant fins along.

I've done a couple of trips back to SoCal. Packing my BPW ain't that big of a deal either.

I have some experience with (non-aquatic) military web gear, and thought there should be a diving equivelant.

I'm quite familiar with the ALICE web gear and that's probably why I liked the Dive Rite Transpac soft plate BPW.

On a recent trip to the Carribean, I got an OK jacket, but the weight belt was really crappy. It had about 2.5 feet of extra material past the crummy plastic buckle, and on the last dive it fell off at the bottom of the drop line. I was able to put it back on, but I just thought there was no need for that. So I figured if I didn't want that to happen again, I should at least get my own high grade belt, but kind of figured "in for the penny, in for the pound" and started off reading about good BCDs here, and found out that a lot of people do use something alot simpler, the BP/W.

Depends on how you rig the whole configuration (ditchable weight pouches, weighted STA, extra heavy steel tank, et al), your BPW may still require the use of weight belt.

On one rig of mine, I have ditchable weight pouches. On another rig, I had weighted STA so that I don't have to wear weight belt or weight pouches. Yet on another rig I keep it light so that I'd have to use weight belt - this is my travel BPW rig. I can put up with renting crappy weight belts & weight rentals for a few dives

I went to a well stocked LDS, but they didn't have any BP/W's. So, I figured I'm going to have to buy my own on the internet. Well, I thought, I'm not really the type of guy who is going to know how to do that, especially when you start mixing and matching. The LDS did have a Zeagle stilletto, and a catalog with the beefier Zeagle ranger.

Zeagle is a quality manufacturer. The Zeagle Ranger has the "Ranger" tab sewn on with the bumblebee look and everything (yellow & black). Very tactical. If I were a Ranger, I might have bought it...now, only if they had one that said "Airborne" with blue & white motif...

In the mean time, I found out about another Scuba shop outside the metro area which carries Halcyon products. As it turns out, they have a really helpful staff and I can rent a Halcyon setup to try in the pool, which I'm going to do soon. I don't know if this is the brand I want, but at least a can try the BP/W style.

I only use Dive Rite and Halcyon BCs.

Bottom line, it seems to me that if one is willing to invest time in the initial purchase and setup of a BP/W, there's really not too many drawbacks, if any.

I can't think of a drawback. Even with people with short or very tall statures, there are BPW manufacturers who make smaller sizes or larger sizes.

One advantage that I don't fully buy is how it can "grow with you". IMHO, a lot of people here are talking about multiple wings and different plates; it seems like you've got a situation like "I own Abe Lincoln's orriginal hatchet. I've only had to replace the handle twice and the head once."

Not really. You need differently sized wings for tank(s) configuration, but that's about it. People buy extra plates & harnesses because they don't want to go through the hassle of swapping things around. Or just for the heck of it. I can justify all I want, but there's no "real" or even "practical" reason for me to own three different BPWs.

 

[radsman]

I mostly do warm water diving when I travel. I live in Colorado, but haven't really got into the lake diving around
here after my cert dives for open water.

I'm in a very similar situtation. New diver... recently moved to CO.. haven't been in a lake around here yet. I also recently bought my first bp/w. The thing I realized after reading the MANY threads on this board on the subject is that I probably WILL do some lake diving in the future. The bp/w will give me the modular ability needed as my choice of diving locals broadens.

Unfortunately, around here, there is only one store that stocks bp/w and they only carry Halycon. Great brand from what I understand but also a bit more expensive. So I called Tobin at DSS. Tobin spent around 45 min of his time answering my lame questions and asking me pointed ones to determine exactly what I needed. This service was INVALUABLE. Got my bp/w in the mail a few days later and put it together. Not too difficult and actually sort of fun.

As a newer diver I'm glad I took the advice of many on this board and bought a bp/w from the get go instead of a jacket style BCD. Couldn't be happier with my choice.

 

[halocline]

OK. I'll bite.

What's the difference between a properly weighted and trimmed diver in a BP/W and a properly weighted and trimmed diver in a Jacket BC?

flots.

That's not really the question. Divers can be properly weighted and trimmed in a variety of configurations. The question more is, which diver is likely to be more comfortable? A rigid plate couples the tank to the back by spreading out the points of contact, a steel plate provides ballast in an ideal location between the two sources of buoyancy, and the simple webbing harness provides stability without any extraneous material, padding, or clips cluttering up the diver's torso. It's simply a better thought out approach to wearing a tank in the water. But that's my opinion, you're free to disagree.

 

[flots am]

That's not really the question. Divers can be properly weighted and trimmed in a variety of configurations. The question more is, which diver is likely to be more comfortable? A rigid plate couples the tank to the back by spreading out the points of contact, a steel plate provides ballast in an ideal location between the two sources of buoyancy, and the simple webbing harness provides stability without any extraneous material, padding, or clips cluttering up the diver's torso. It's simply a better thought out approach to wearing a tank in the water. But that's my opinion, you're free to disagree.

I don't disagree, I just don't see it as a difference.

There's nothing above (except ballast in the steel plate) that doesn't apply to a properly designed jacket.

flots

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

OK. I'll bite.

What's the difference between a properly weighted and trimmed diver in a BP/W and a properly weighted and trimmed diver in a Jacket BC?

flots.

I can tell you what I think is the difference.

Perfect trim can be achieved with both a Jacket and BP/W by any diver with a little practice.

Where I see the differences are:
1) Slipstreaming. A BP/W does not have as much bulk in Integrated weight pouches/ padding, storage pockets, sewn together design details with netting, piping, etc.
All these added extras hang up on water as the diver moves forward thus slowing the diver down and causing unnecessary energy consumtion.

2) Maintenance. BP/W are more user friendly as far as user maintenance. Being that BP/W are modular, all the individual components that wear out such as webbing, wings, and cam band webbing can easily be relaced by the user. Each thing can be removed and replaced or repaired easily and at a considerable cost savings. A plate never wears out.
With a Jacket if any issues arise with any of these components it has to go in to get repaired either at the dealer or the manufacturer.

3) BP/W have more versitility. They can be used for bare bones no BC minimalist diving, they can be used for standard recreational single tank diving, and they can be used with double cylinders for recreational or technical diving. For technical diving any number of D-rings can be used and placed where ever a diver so chooses for sling bottles, SMB's etc, with a jacket you cannot do this. Some jackets claim they can do singles and doubles, but they can't do no BC diving.

4) Cost.The median cost for a complete BP/W unit as opposed to the median cost for a Jacket BC, the BP/W is a better value overall. There are very cheap Jackets and there are jackets up over $800. A very good BP/W complete unit can be had brand new for under $500.

And I forgot about the crotch strap.

There's also the diving style. Some people like to do a feet first decent. Some people like to swim down. With a BP/W the rig sits much more firmly on the divers back allowing the diver to do many different attitudes of trim from heads down looking under stuff to upside down to virtually any position. With a jacket doing this is much more difficult because the unit has a tendency to flop around more on the diver and being that most of them do not have crotch straps makes it difficult to swim the rig down head first without having the rig slide in the direction that gravity wants it to go which would be over the divers head if they were heads down. Most jackets these days are weight integrated with no crotch strap so this becomes a problem.