TDI Basic Nitrox Book

[paolov]

woah paolov how'd you leave engineering for scuba instruction? I mean come on engineering is fun I dunno why i'd even wanna go diving when I could spend some overtime in the cubicle at my internship

hehehehe, regular weekdays and some saturdays i do engineering work and on off days sometimes weekdays (day trips) i do scuba as supplement job.

turns out i do some engineering application during scuba.... rats

 

[trevinkorea]

Interesting thread.

I had the same problem with the PADI nitrox book and course. I am in no way an engineer and I have limited scientific training but I found it really weak.

To suppliment my learning, I've read the PADI deep tec book and it has a lot more information but is what I had expected from the deep specialty I took a year ago. Another very weak course. The tec deep book is not informative enough.

I've also read the PADI encyclopedia. It was a good read several years ago but still not enough.

Perhaps, I will never learn enough but scuba is a bit of an obsession with me. Please, suggest some great materials.

Are the ANDI books better in terms of content. I really don't care what colour it is or how many pretty pictures it contains. I am after content.

If the major agencies are not producing good quality, in-depth materials. What would you recommend?

More information on nitrox diving and decompression as well as accellerated decompression using nitrox and oxygen and any other more advanced diving technique or theory books as well. (really just about anything that will help me to improve knowledge and skills.)

I plan to move into deeper decompression diving and want to be fully informed and have the knowledge to pursue the training safely. I don't necessarily trust the instructor to provide all the information I need due to time limitations on a course.

I hope this is in the right string.

Thanks

 

[RedCash02]

I'm always up for a good read too. No, I will never try to apply any of those concepts until I have much more experience and the proper instruction, but I guess that's my nerdy engineer side curious to know more. Also, anyone suggest a good book on the history of scuba?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Have you read ANDI's CSU manual.

Once again ... this is the BASIC SCUBA DISCUSSIONS forum. The context of the conversation, and my comments regarding the topic of this thread, have to do with recreational scuba ... not tech scuba. Those two things are worlds apart ... which is why there's a separate forum for discussing tech scuba issues.

But to answer your question ... no, I haven't read it.

Hey are you watching KCTS tonight?

I killed my television years ago ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[padiscubapro]

Once again ... this is the BASIC SCUBA DISCUSSIONS forum. The context of the conversation, and my comments regarding the topic of this thread, have to do with recreational scuba ... not tech scuba. Those two things are worlds apart ... which is why there's a separate forum for discussing tech scuba issues.

But to answer your question ... no, I haven't read it.



I killed my television years ago ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

ANDI CSU is a RECREATIONAL program hence our Level 2 designation, NOT a TECHNICAL program.
It sounds as if you equate complete quality programs with technical! There is no deco, 40m/130fsw limit, or no tech gear in the class, its a complete class on enriched air mixtures, physiology, and proper handling of Oxygen.. not half or 1/4 the story.. The program qualifies the diver to use up to 50%. ANDI TECHNICAL programs begin with TSD.. TECHNICAL SAFEAIR DIVER.. Just because most agencies choose to water down their programs doesn't mean everyone does.. ANDI has never been about quickie classes.. I have had ADVANCED Trimix instructors (trying for a crossover) fail our CSU instructor exam! We demand a high level of instructor base knowledge, the stronger the foundation the better important details can be explained.

I teach for multiple agencies so I am quite familiar with the different offerings and who they are geared towards.
Just like our OW diver is expected to be able to do stuff that PADI doesn't teach until rescue.. (our OW program is also a 30m/100fsw rating as opposed to an 18m/60fsw rating)

The ANDI csu book does not have alot of pretty pictures.. We are slowly upgrading our text books visually but the same content is there.. The CSU has not undergone an "upgrade" yet..

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

ANDI CSU is a RECREATIONAL program hence our Level 2 designation, NOT a TECHNICAL program.

Apparently ANDI doesn't agree with you ... the first paragraph from the ANDI CSU course description ...

ABOUT THE COURSE:

ANDI is a world leader in the development of Technical Diving Training Programs. The ANDI CSU (complete safe-air user) program is a vital step on the technical diving education ladder and is the foundation for the diver's technical skills development. As such, the CSU course, is an important step in expanding a diver's knowledge beyond the standard recreational levels offered by other diver training agencies. The ANDI CSU program offers high quality course content, which although technically demanding is realistic in it's pace of presentation and the introduction of technical diving concepts.

http://www.scubadivetraining.co.uk/andi_advanced_nitrox.htm

As to the rest of your commentary ... when people come here with questions or comments, it is important to attempt to answer them in the context of what you can determine about their level of training, goals, and purpose of the thread. Responding to a query or concern about a recreational level class with information about technical diving may impress upon someone that you are knowledgeable beyond their level, but it rarely answers the question.

And ANDI CSU does not equate to the TDI course that was originally brought up in this thread. It is more like a standard nitrox and advanced nitrox class rolled into a single course.

Furthermore, you took my own comments out of context in order to dispute them. To quote the paragraph you are "disagreeing with" ...

The larger agencies ... PADI, NAUI, SSI, etc. ... package their books nicely. But for the most part, they lack the depth that is required for the student to really benefit from reading the materials. The agencies rely on their instructors to "fill in the gaps".

Where in there do you see me saying anything about agencies that are geared to technical training? FWIW - ANDI, GUE, IANTD, NAUI Tech, and other agencies teach entry-level classes designed to help divers who want to get into tech training, but that are not in and of themselves, tech classes. These are not the agencies I was referring to ... nor those that offer courses comparable to the one the thread originator was talking about.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[padiscubapro]

Apparently ANDI doesn't agree with you ... the first paragraph from the ANDI CSU course description ...

ABOUT THE COURSE:

ANDI is a world leader in the development of Technical Diving Training Programs. The ANDI CSU (complete safe-air user) program is a vital step on the technical diving education ladder and is the foundation for the diver's technical skills development. As such, the CSU course, is an important step in expanding a diver's knowledge beyond the standard recreational levels offered by other diver training agencies. The ANDI CSU program offers high quality course content, which although technically demanding is realistic in it's pace of presentation and the introduction of technical diving concepts.

http://www.scubadivetraining.co.uk/andi_advanced_nitrox.htm

As to the rest of your commentary ... when people come here with questions or comments, it is important to attempt to answer them in the context of what you can determine about their level of training, goals, and purpose of the thread. Responding to a query or concern about a recreational level class with information about technical diving may impress upon someone that you are knowledgeable beyond their level, but it rarely answers the question.

And ANDI CSU does not equate to the TDI course that was originally brought up in this thread. It is more like a standard nitrox and advanced nitrox class rolled into a single course.

Furthermore, you took my own comments out of context in order to dispute them. To quote the paragraph you are "disagreeing with" ...



Where in there do you see me saying anything about agencies that are geared to technical training? FWIW - ANDI, GUE, IANTD, NAUI Tech, and other agencies teach entry-level classes designed to help divers who want to get into tech training, but that are not in and of themselves, tech classes. These are not the agencies I was referring to ... nor those that offer courses comparable to the one the thread originator was talking about.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Ok bob, we both may be taking things out of context.. The part that got me was the ANY AGENCY PART, in the prior paragraph of your posting. ANDI prides itself as being a leader in the tech diving community and offering strong recreational programs as well.. The CSU class is a major foundation for tech training in the future..
By our own S&P All l1+l2 classes are recreational certifications meaning that they are all no stop required and a max depth of up to 40m (depending on the program).. Even if we compared out LSU class - safeair sport diver, even with the limitations of just using 32% and 36% (this is quite often taught to ow divers in training so that they never have to use air) alot of the csu material is taught and is still a more complete class than a typical padi or tdi class because of the extra physiology that the class encompases.

a good desscription of what ANDI sees as a level 2 diver from the HQ Web site, along with l3

All Level 2 courses can be expected to be of an “advanced recreational” scope of training. Only two cylinders and up to two gases may be employed to limit the task loading. This is essentially the recreational limits that are accepted world-wide: 40m maximum depth, No-Stop-Required profiles, no decompression training, 1.45 PO2, 4.0 PN2 and information content of a more complete or more technical nature. For example, the Cavern Diver course is a Level 2 program. A twin-set of cylinders with another gas in an RBS is beyond L2 task loading

Level 3 training encompasses the first level of what has become known as “technical diving”. In general, a more experienced recreational diver is the student prerequisite. Three cylinders and three gas mixes are the task loading limits unless otherwise specified. In addition the training is limited to 50m (49.5 m actual) maximum depth, 1.45 PO2, 4.5 PN2 or less (depending on the course standards), full decompression training procedures with decompression ceilings limited to 30 minutes (TTM is the exception) and exposure limited to 1.6 PO2, information content of a complete and technical nature. For example, the Cave Diver course is a Level 3 program. Educational Training Levels

Regardless of what you think about the agency its still a great book to learn with, in fact I know several instructors and ITs from other agencies that use the ANDI csu (diver manual) as their instructor manual for other agencies classes in order to be more complete..

I think we can put this to bed..

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Regardless of what you think about the agency its still a great book to learn with, in fact I know several instructors and ITs from other agencies that use the ANDI csu (diver manual) as their instructor manual for other agencies classes in order to be more complete..

I have no opinions whatsoever about ANDI courses ... I've neither taken one nor read their course materials.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[paolov]

yes this is about recreational diving. Recreational diving using nitrox and the manuals used to teach basic nitrox for recreational fun.

 

[David P]

I sent the link to this thread to TDI to let them know (in the first half of the thread) what people are saying about their text. this is the complete reply

David,



The manuals are used to provide you with information about the course. They are not to be used as the only reference but just that a reference to the program that you are enrolled in.





Best regards,