Time to convert - BP/W

[LavaSurfer]

So if I get all this right, I need:

Basics:
BackPlate AL or SS
Harness (Hog)
5 D-Rings
Crotch Strap (Padded with Velvet)
Pockets

Single tank config:
Wing with 18-30 lbs lift
STA
Cam bands

Doubles config:
Wing with 30-50 lbs lift
Steal tank bands
Manifold w/isolation valve

Cave/cavern diving
Doubles Setup
2 first stage regs with 2 seconds minimum
Extra Mask
10 watt HID light
2 backup lights
2 spools 150 foot and 250 foot

Missing anything?

 

[LavaSurfer]

Now for another question, I have pondered this awhile.

Isn’t the goal to be as light in the water as possible and still maintain as close to neutral buoyancy as possible?
Less total mass = Less exertion and fatigue, right?

If so, why all the heavy gear like steel tanks, heavy BP’s, added weight and then a massive 50 or 80 lbs wing to hold it all up?

With all this heavy gear and large wings what if the wing suddenly gets damaged. Where is the ability to bail out other than dump the gear because you’re so heavy in the water.

Wouldn’t it be better to go with an Aluminum BP, AL80’s less weight and a smaller wing?

Yes I may be showing my Noob a bit it just isn’t registering to me.

 

[louis]

I notice that the Halcyon Eclipse has an accessory of trim wt pockets that you can put on the straps (are these called CAMs?) that hold the tanks. Would these trim wt pockets from Halcyon work on the DSS tank straps? Alternatively could I just get a couple wt pockets from XS Scuba that are made for 2" wt belts and would these fit & work on the DSS tank straps & if so, would they be safe to substitue for Halcyon trim wts?
Finally, I have seen at least one (and maybe only one) comment on Scubaboard liking the steel mechanism of the Halycon inflator compared to the DSS inflator. Are these inflators interchangeable, to the effect that, if I wanted I could easily "unscrew" the DSS inflator and substitute a Halcyon inflator?

 

[GreenDiverDown]

I notice that the Halcyon Eclipse has an accessory of trim wt pockets that you can put on the straps (are these called CAMs?) that hold the tanks.

Yes... Cam bands. Here's a link to some pics...
http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=114689

Would these trim wt pockets from Halcyon work on the DSS tank straps?

Yep

Alternatively could I just get a couple wt pockets from XS Scuba that are made for 2" wt belts and would these fit & work on the DSS tank straps & if so, would they be safe to substitue for Halcyon trim wts?

Some guys do just that. The Halcyon pockets are pretty expensive... but they are very nice!

Are these inflators interchangeable, to the effect that, if I wanted I could easily "unscrew" the DSS inflator and substitute a Halcyon inflator?

I would think that you would be better off using the inflator mechanism that came with your DSS wing. The Halcyon inflators have been problematic and even though they say they have fixed the problems many guys are still having difficulties.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

Basics:
BackPlate AL or SS
Harness (Hog)
5 D-Rings
Crotch Strap (Padded with Velvet)
Pockets

Pretty much right. A hog harness starts with about 14 feet of 2 inch webbing. If you get this much you should have plenty left over for a weight belt. Reef Scuba has some good webbing...
http://www.reefscuba.com/ropewebbing.htm

The hardware includes 2 bent D-rings... one to go below each clavicle... and 1 regular D-ring for the left waist. The crotch strap usually has two D-rings, although the front D-ring isn't needed unless you are using a scooter, Scooter. If you get one already made up from Halcyon or Oxycheq, it will come with the front D-ring sewn in place with the back one held in place by a keeper.

In addition to this you will need 5 triglides... or keepers to lock the webbing in position on the plate and to hold the D-rings in place.

Also, you will need a nice SS waist buckle. Get a heavy duty one. Oxycheq and DSS have some nice ones. Don't use the cheap ones from Trident.

One more thing... a small cutting device and a sheath. These are usually 2 inch blunt tips. You can easily make your own by breaking off a steak knife. The sheath is a little harder to make... but your local shoe repair place can probably sew one together for you with some of your left over webbing. I think it's just easier getting one from DSS, EE, or Oxy.

Oh... there's more...

You'll need to order up some bungee... 3/16"... from the Reef. A small loop at the left chest D-ring will hold your inflator. Also you will need some to make your necklace.

And...don't forget the inner tube. You'll need some on several places on the harness.

Bolt snaps! Don't forget the SS bolt snaps! You'll need one for each backup light, one for the SPG, and one for your primary reg.

Single tank config:
Wing with 18-30 lbs lift
STA
Cam bands

STAs generally come with cam bands... well, at least the ones I have purchased from EE always have. Plus... the Halcyon STAs/cam bands have very nice SS buckles.

You left out the reg setup! You might want a DSMB, too!

Doubles config:
Wing with 30-50 lbs lift
Steal tank bands
Manifold w/isolation valve

Those Al 80s that you plan to use pair nicely with a 40# wing. They need 7.25" bands. Highland bands seem to be the gold standard. They come with different bolt sets, though. So, you want to make sure you get what you need. Generally, most plates use the 5/16" bolts... but if I remember right, the Halcyon plates need a particular set... 5/16" but a little shorter than most... I think. Some guys like to cut their own with some SS all-thread, but that's another hotly debated topic.

Cave/cavern diving
Doubles Setup
2 first stage regs with 2 seconds minimum
Extra Mask
10 watt HID light
2 backup lights
2 spools 150 foot and 250 foot

That list looks mighty short!

Usually, guys talk to their instructor before getting gear. Here is one list from Fred Devos...

http://www.aquaexploration.com/English/Caves/Personalized Cave Training.htm

 

[Halthron]

Now for another question, I have pondered this awhile.

Isn’t the goal to be as light in the water as possible and still maintain as close to neutral buoyancy as possible?
Less total mass = Less exertion and fatigue, right?

If so, why all the heavy gear like steel tanks, heavy BP’s, added weight and then a massive 50 or 80 lbs wing to hold it all up?

With all this heavy gear and large wings what if the wing suddenly gets damaged. Where is the ability to bail out other than dump the gear because you’re so heavy in the water.

Wouldn’t it be better to go with an Aluminum BP, AL80’s less weight and a smaller wing?

Yes I may be showing my Noob a bit it just isn’t registering to me.

Ultimately, the equipment you bring should revolve around what you're trying to do in the water. If you want to stay down a long time, then doubles are good. But how much bouyancy do you have to deal with for those tanks? It depends on a few factors, namely the size of the tank (80 vs 130 for instance), the material the tank is made from (Al vs Steel) and how much air is in the tank at the time. If an 80 ft tank loses about 5 lbs then a 130 will lose about 8 and two will lose about 17 lbs during the course of the dive. This is something that needs to be planned for.

Diving cold vs. diving warm can result in a big weight difference. If I'm diving warm, my weight needs don't change much during the dive but while a 7-12mm suit has great bouyancy at the surface, neoprene compression at 130ft causes the suit to lose most of its bouyancy properties.

Your worst case scenarios are always those at the ends of the spectrum. How much weight would you need to stay down if you were wearing 12mm of neoprene at 40ft with Al doubles that were 3/4 empty? Probably enough that you don't want to be wearing it all on your waist all the time. Convert some of that waist weight to weight on your back by using steel tanks, or one of the methods of shifting it to the plate.

The other side of the curve is, now that you can stay down, how much lift do you need to get up from 130 ft wearing steel doubles that are 90% full if you need to abort the dive?

The BC is always a point of failure on any dive, some manufacturers make wings with a redundant bladder and many people keep a few pounds on their weight belt in case they need to ditch. Having never used weights integrated onto a plate, I can't say how easy they would be to remove during a dive.

Less exertion is always one of the goals but it can't stand in the way of the primary objective else there's no reason to dive that reef/wreck/cave. When it comes to weight, it's fine to shift it around so that it takes less exertion to dive, this usually means shifting it to your back. Being overwight for the dive is what's bad since it's not needed.

 

[alo100]

I would think that you would be better off using the inflator mechanism that came with your DSS wing. The Halcyon inflators have been problematic and even though they say they have fixed the problems many guys are still having difficulties.

So, I have seen a recall online: http://www.cdnn.info/recall/halcyon_040525/halcyon_040525.html

You mean, after the recall, Halcyon still couldn't fix all the issues for the sold units?
It was May 2004.... so what did Halcyon do, change a new one for them, or there is no fix?

Thanks...

 

[GreenDiverDown]

So, I have seen a recall online: http://www.cdnn.info/recall/halcyon_040525/halcyon_040525.html

You mean, after the recall, Halcyon still couldn't fix all the issues for the sold units?
It was May 2004.... so what did Halcyon do, change a new one for them, or there is no fix?

Thanks...

Halcyon states that the issue has been resolved and that they are not experiencing an unusual amount of problems with their post-recall inflators. Yet, there are several threads with numerous individuals claiming post-recall failures.

Here's one...
http://thedecostop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15423

 

[jagfish]

Yeah, that thread tells it all...

I've been pretty disappointed with my inflator experience. The good news is that they are easy to rebuild, the bad news is I sometimes have to redo it after only 30 or 40 dives...

Jim