gehadoski
Contributor
thats what PADI says, I don't know what about other organizations.
Too soon to do Advanced and Rescue Diver?
- Thread starter Bbob
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pilot fish
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mania:
I completely agree with Mania, it is much too soon for Rescue Diver. I also think it is a mistake to take AOW right after, or during ,[that is totally a mistake], OW. I think there sholuld be some minimum number of dives before you do AOW, 25, 50, something like that. You can't help but pick up better skills and comfort with more dive experience. Just accumulating certs does not make you a better diver, experience does.
If it is the only way you will get diving, then by all means take the AOW. But also try to tie in with a buddy or two, or club, that dive where you take the training dives.Bbob:
trevinkorea
Contributor
I'd like to agree more with RP diver. I have recently taken the Rescue program. (about six months ago) The course could be considered challenging but really it is very doable.
That being said I had over a hundred dives going into the course and I like fast paced learning so I took the deep cours and nitrox at the same time. Both deep and nitrox were really a cake walk.
As far as I'm concerned all divers should have some rescue training and I think it is both dangerous and unnexceptable for an open water diver to be given permission to dive without an instructor without being able to self rescue or offer assistance to thier buddy. As an open water diver I found myself in two serious situations that were well outside my ability to deal with. Luckily both divers lived to tell the tale. If I had the training and didn't feel so restricted by the rules, I would have been able to help in both situation.
As far as taking either of these courses, I see no reason why it couldn't be done if you are very comfortable in the water. But, a better approach may be to take the advanced course and ask your instructor to teach you some rescue skills as well. If you instructor is willing to do this you will get some of the rescue training you should have as a diver, be better able to make an informed decision about the full rescue course and if you would want to take it with the same instructor and you could take a little time between the advanced and rescue to gain more experience knowing that you have at least the basics to perform a rescue.
I'm not trying to suggest that experience is not very important but, I think too many divers place far too much emphasis on number of dives, etc. Diving is not all that complicated and there is no such thing as too much training. I am always surprsised by the scuba industries willingness to send out a new diver who is essentially only able to breathe underwater. When they team up with another inexperienced diver this is a recipe for disaster.
Get the training you want and continue to develop your skills. Perhaps a good way to go about this is to find an instructor that will take you through both programs slowly. When you have the required dives and the instructor is confident in your skills get the certification. But, with rescue I would also recommend that you find an instructor who is willing to do a refresher with you in six months or so after the course. It is very easy to get rusty especially as rescue skills are not routinely practiced by the majority of recreational divers.
Good luck with your training. The rescue course is probably the most beneficial course I've taken. I don't think you will regret taking it whether you have 20 dives or 1000.
That being said I had over a hundred dives going into the course and I like fast paced learning so I took the deep cours and nitrox at the same time. Both deep and nitrox were really a cake walk.
As far as I'm concerned all divers should have some rescue training and I think it is both dangerous and unnexceptable for an open water diver to be given permission to dive without an instructor without being able to self rescue or offer assistance to thier buddy. As an open water diver I found myself in two serious situations that were well outside my ability to deal with. Luckily both divers lived to tell the tale. If I had the training and didn't feel so restricted by the rules, I would have been able to help in both situation.
As far as taking either of these courses, I see no reason why it couldn't be done if you are very comfortable in the water. But, a better approach may be to take the advanced course and ask your instructor to teach you some rescue skills as well. If you instructor is willing to do this you will get some of the rescue training you should have as a diver, be better able to make an informed decision about the full rescue course and if you would want to take it with the same instructor and you could take a little time between the advanced and rescue to gain more experience knowing that you have at least the basics to perform a rescue.
I'm not trying to suggest that experience is not very important but, I think too many divers place far too much emphasis on number of dives, etc. Diving is not all that complicated and there is no such thing as too much training. I am always surprsised by the scuba industries willingness to send out a new diver who is essentially only able to breathe underwater. When they team up with another inexperienced diver this is a recipe for disaster.
Get the training you want and continue to develop your skills. Perhaps a good way to go about this is to find an instructor that will take you through both programs slowly. When you have the required dives and the instructor is confident in your skills get the certification. But, with rescue I would also recommend that you find an instructor who is willing to do a refresher with you in six months or so after the course. It is very easy to get rusty especially as rescue skills are not routinely practiced by the majority of recreational divers.
Good luck with your training. The rescue course is probably the most beneficial course I've taken. I don't think you will regret taking it whether you have 20 dives or 1000.
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I'm going to disagree with the majority here.
If you haven't been diving at all since OW, then the first thing you should do is get in a pool and do a refresher class to remember the skills you learned, but haven't yet put into practice. As an instructor, I may accept a student into my AOW class fresh out of OW ... but not one who had six months and no diving since the class.
The problem with taking the class now is that there is a strong probability that you'll be spending too much time trying to remember what you learned in OW, and not be paying attention to what you should be learning in AOW. You'll most likely end up going through the motions and coming out of the class feeling like you haven't learned much.
Take a refresher ... then make a real effort to get out and dive. Join a dive club, or see if your LDS sponsors local dives suitable for newly certified divers ... many do as a way to promote developing customer relationships with new divers.
Get some practice before taking AOW ... you'll get far more out of the class.
As far as Rescue is concerned, get out and do at least 20-25 dives before taking it. Comfort with the basic skills is pretty much required if you want to do well ... it's a challenging class.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
If you haven't been diving at all since OW, then the first thing you should do is get in a pool and do a refresher class to remember the skills you learned, but haven't yet put into practice. As an instructor, I may accept a student into my AOW class fresh out of OW ... but not one who had six months and no diving since the class.
The problem with taking the class now is that there is a strong probability that you'll be spending too much time trying to remember what you learned in OW, and not be paying attention to what you should be learning in AOW. You'll most likely end up going through the motions and coming out of the class feeling like you haven't learned much.
Take a refresher ... then make a real effort to get out and dive. Join a dive club, or see if your LDS sponsors local dives suitable for newly certified divers ... many do as a way to promote developing customer relationships with new divers.
Get some practice before taking AOW ... you'll get far more out of the class.
As far as Rescue is concerned, get out and do at least 20-25 dives before taking it. Comfort with the basic skills is pretty much required if you want to do well ... it's a challenging class.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
DiveMaven
Contributor
I really believe that having a few dives under your belt before going to AOW is beneficial in most instances. One big reason is because your bouyancy and other skills will improve after OW, and that will benefit you in AOW. Another good reason is your weighting. During my OW training, I dove in a 3 mil shorty and carried 16 pounds of weight. I now dive in a 3 mil full suit and carry 12 pounds. We won't even talk about the difference in bouyancy skills. I guess I'll always believe that doing anywhere from 10-20 dives after OW is best before going onto AOW.
Great question and responses, the reflect both sides of the debate that has existed for a long time.
My two cents worth, MORE TRAINING IS MORE BETTER,
In other words taking advanced can only make you a better diver. The thing to remember is not to confuse your skill level with your certification level. Nor should you confuse the number of dives with dive experience, the variety of diving and what you learn on each dive is what makes you a better diver. I have hundreds and I hope I am still learning.
The PADI standards do require that you have proof of 20 logged dives before taking Rescue. You will also need to complete CPR course before receiving your certification, that can be done after you complete the Rescue class. The PADI class for CPR is EFR, Emergency First Responder.
ps: To meet full disclosure requirements I should mention that I am new to the board but not to diving and I am a PADI Instructor.
My two cents worth, MORE TRAINING IS MORE BETTER,
In other words taking advanced can only make you a better diver. The thing to remember is not to confuse your skill level with your certification level. Nor should you confuse the number of dives with dive experience, the variety of diving and what you learn on each dive is what makes you a better diver. I have hundreds and I hope I am still learning.
The PADI standards do require that you have proof of 20 logged dives before taking Rescue. You will also need to complete CPR course before receiving your certification, that can be done after you complete the Rescue class. The PADI class for CPR is EFR, Emergency First Responder.
ps: To meet full disclosure requirements I should mention that I am new to the board but not to diving and I am a PADI Instructor.
RonFrank
Contributor
Bbob:
PADI has started enforcing the 20 dive rule for rescue. In the past they have apparently had this requirement, but it was not generally enforced.
So IMO do advanced if you like, but you will have to wait until you get 20 dives logged before you can do Rescue.
MAK52580
Contributor
how do you expect to ever rescue someone if you have never seen anything yourself? The whole purpose of gaining an advanced and rescue cert is to build upon your previous skills. From the sounds of it, you have no previous skills other than your checkout dives.
Advanced may not be bad since it will further emphasize buoyancy, trim, finning, etc., but it is definitely too soon to take a rescue course. My advice to prepare for it would be to dive as much as possible, in every type of environment: low viz, night, 60-130, warm water, cold water, currents. Get comfortable in these environments and THEN worry about the "what if I needed to rescue someone RIGHT NOW" in all of those environments.
If you honestly can say to yourself that you don't think that you could do it, and be responsible for the safety of another diver in trouble because you don't have the skills or comfort in those environments, then you should wait. Keep in mind that when conducting a rescue, you MAY be liable for anything that happens to that diver/s. If it ever gets that far, and they see you have never yourself dived or lacked the experience in that particular environment, you could be hosed.
Just think about it.
Advanced may not be bad since it will further emphasize buoyancy, trim, finning, etc., but it is definitely too soon to take a rescue course. My advice to prepare for it would be to dive as much as possible, in every type of environment: low viz, night, 60-130, warm water, cold water, currents. Get comfortable in these environments and THEN worry about the "what if I needed to rescue someone RIGHT NOW" in all of those environments.
If you honestly can say to yourself that you don't think that you could do it, and be responsible for the safety of another diver in trouble because you don't have the skills or comfort in those environments, then you should wait. Keep in mind that when conducting a rescue, you MAY be liable for anything that happens to that diver/s. If it ever gets that far, and they see you have never yourself dived or lacked the experience in that particular environment, you could be hosed.
Just think about it.
Bbob:
Well, your doubt should be enough of an indicator to answer the question for you.
And your lack of diving to further your experiences, should also be an indicator it's too soon.
Go out and dive, enjoy it, there is no benefit in some fast track plan to get certifications, experience is needed first.
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