Training - Leg strength

[MosheDyan]

"I do leg presses, leg extensions and weighted calf raises to keep my legs in shape. I keep the weight extremely heavy and do low reps. I also add deadlifts to the mix because they work everything really."

Hi ElectricZombie (what a cool avatar name)...
Umm....I just want to make a minor comment and correction or two to what you are saying here. First....the specific target area for deadlifts (either stiff or bent-legged) are the hamstrings, portions of the glutes, and associated fixators. If you are "working everything" with this movement you are doing it wrong AND risking applying shearing pressure to the L4/L5 junction. That is one movement I do religiously myself just for hamstrings. I also find it to be one exercise that is done incorrectly by most folks I deal with...athletes included. The tension should ONLY be felt on your hamstrings (back of upper thigh) and glutes (if you squeeze at the top of the movement).
The leg extensions IMHO are a waste of time AND risk supplemental low-back strain by the nature of the machine. You will get an overall greater benefit with reduced potential risk of back injury by switching to a compound exercise such as lunges or squats. Both will smack the quads, hams, and calf muscles. Leg presses are fine for isolating quads...but you will be better served doing the two movements I previously mentioned. As far as the calf raises go if you want to rip them up and stand them out go for it...otherwise...they will already be worked doing squats/lunges etc.
Just as a reminder:
Heavy weights+low reps=strength training (you should not be doing this realistically until a good level of muscular endurance has been achieved).
Light weights+high reps=muscular endurance
The general population needs a lot more of the latter...then the former!

 

[ElectricZombie]

The leg extensions IMHO are a waste of time AND risk supplemental low-back strain by the nature of the machine. You will get an overall greater benefit with reduced potential risk of back injury by switching to a compound exercise such as lunges or squats. Both will smack the quads, hams, and calf muscles. Leg presses are fine for isolating quads...but you will be better served doing the two movements I previously mentioned. As far as the calf raises go if you want to rip them up and stand them out go for it...otherwise...they will already be worked doing squats/lunges etc.
Just as a reminder:
Heavy weights+low reps=strength training (you should not be doing this realistically until a good level of muscular endurance has been achieved).
Light weights+high reps=muscular endurance
The general population needs a lot more of the latter...then the former!

Deadlifts do incorporate the shoulders, forearms and back to a certain extent...hence the "everything" description.

I've found leg extensions to work great when performed with heavy weights. It's one of my favorite leg exercises. No back issues that I've ever noticed. I squat every now and then, but it's not part of the usual routine. I train calves because I like the look it gives. If you do a frog kick, you will use your calves more.

I've already got a good level of muscular endurance...always played sports, been active. My goal when in the gym is to get stronger. Heavy weights/low reps also allow for a quicker workout which I like. I follow a Mentzer/HIT type workout and get much better results than when I was doing differently.

 

[MosheDyan]

"Deadlifts do incorporate the shoulders, forearms and back to a certain extent...hence the "everything" description"

Again...shoulders/forearms are just gripping the bar....if you are using your back during the deadlift you ARE doing it incorrectly. The deadlift is hams....with glutes as a secondary. You may want to have someone look at your technique-I am not trying to make you mad...it's just a concern. Also...if leg extensions work for you...fantastic...but...you are not fully recruiting the quads with that motion. The squat, hack squat, lunge, and incline leg press (hip sled) are all far superior exercises and are compound movements recruiting multiple muscle areas...not just the lower segment of the quads....
Again...don't take my comments as trying to make you mad...oh...BTW...I have found that a strength workout takes a lot longer than an endurance or circuit workout...especially with any sort of pyramid and/or stripping. Thats why for more advanced folks with less time on thier hands I almost exclusively push supersets...working smarter AND harder...in less time.

 

[ElectricZombie]

It also depends on how much rest you take between sets as to which is quicker. I try not to take too long and can get out of the gym in under 40 minutes or so (2 body parts per workout), especially since I'm not doing a ton of sets or reps.

Compound movements are probably better, I'm just not crazy about squats. I know they work, I just don't like doing them. The leg press is one of my favorites too.

You're NOT making me mad...everyone works out differently and that's ok.

 

[dbulmer]

As a side commentary the whole business of "stretching" has come under a significant amount of fire. The most recent research suggests that there is little benefit and possibly some risk attached to pre-exercise stretching. What I have tended to recommend to patients/clients is a 2 minute active warmup before exercise (consisting of non-ballistic..i.e. bouncy..movements that sort of initialize the prime muscle groups for action. Arm raises, side bends, shrugs, squats, and stepbacks performed for 12-15 reps each. I have done this prior to diving just to loosen up and I don't believe there would be any nitrogen loading risk associated with this. Post exercise PNF stretching has some excellent benefits. I also incorporate a couple of Tai Chi and Yoga movements which help overall muscle relaxation and may improve flexibility if performed properly over time.

I assume from the above that you are hinting at the Australian survey on pre-stretching?

The problem with pre-stretching is that quite a few people don't know how to do it properly or understand its purpose. I have seen quite a few people overdo their warmup and then proceed to stretch with disastrous consequences.

I can sense from your posts that you know what you are doing !

Before diving I prefer to do some joint rotations from head to foot and leave it at that. I don't like to do anything overexerting before getting in to the water and my worry would be that some people might overdo it before diving. I am pretty sure now that the initiator of this thread would not be among those people.

When not diving I do the joint rotations and then jog on the spot for a minute or to the point where I feel sweat on my back trickling down - sweat on the forehead only would indicate that I am not yet warm enough to proceed with stretching - and then do punches and kicks lightly for another minute or so (I am a martial artist).

I then do the workout ie and do isometric stretching at the end usually on either the quads or calves or hamstrings but never all 3 at the same time.
I also do back stretching but a small amount. Sometimes I won't bother with isometrics depending on how I feel and do some some static stretching instead. For strength I prefer low weight multiple repetitions but I think that swimming in a pool with your fins on is a good idea ie you learn to fin better and exercise those finning muscles directly.

best wishes

 

[MosheDyan]

"I can sense from your posts that you know what you are doing"

I bloody well better or my insurance carrier will drop me like a hot rock! Seriously...I happen to be a certified sports therapist AND personal trainer and my wife and I own our own chiropractic/sports therapy clinic on Lanzarote (she being the chiropractor).
It is not just the formal studies regarding pre-workout stretching that have convinced me.....if you take a look at UK soccer (football) and US football (Superbowl kind---sans bare chest) and watch the warmups there is little passive or isometric stretching involved with the exception of the hamstrings. There is a lot more active warmup now (just witness the almost carioca-like dance moves of a certain UK premiership team). Stretching is still beneficial.....it just depends on the type (I am a long-time convert to facilitated/PNF stretching post-exercise). Keep in mind that on the personal training side of my work I do have a natural tendency to apply rehabilitative methods. Instead of playing GI Joe with a client and trying to exhaust them (it seems a lot of personal trainers...the crappy ones....have a masochisitic streak and the clients buy off on thinking pain is good) I usually start by thinking quality of life improvement (every day actions)-muscular endurance-strength-and finally proprioception (muscle knowledge of its location in space and movement) and sport-specific work. There are VERY FEW folks that I come across that get to skip straight along to strength training.
Anyway...the whole point of the thread was to provide the questioner some options for their workout. Hopefully he/she now has some valid answers...although I believe they would be well served by having a trainer spend a couple hours with them at the home gym to give specific instruction.
Ted

 

[dbulmer]

moshe,
I agree with you mostly... except I'd never use the word soccer. I use football and qualify that other game with the words American football!

BTW that's a joke lest I be accused of inciting the masses! A subjunctive in English eh!!

 

[primalchaos]

I do leg presses, leg extensions and weighted calf raises to keep my legs in shape. I keep the weight extremely heavy and do low reps. I also add deadlifts to the mix because they work everything really.

I think I can do all of those on the bowflex except the deadlifts. I might have to set something up for the deadlifts

 

[primalchaos]

Before diving I prefer to do some joint rotations from head to foot and leave it at that.

Do you mean like windmilling the arms and rolling your neck, or am I not understanding?

 

[dbulmer]

Yes - essentially.

You move your head up and down and then side to side in slow movements.
Your hands,arms, your torso and then your legs,feet.

I use slow punching movements with the arms and kicking movements with the legs but I keep the arms and legs nice and relaxed. Also remember to to breathe in nice and slow - sound familiar eh?!