Tried sidemount - good experience

[kelemvor]

One thing I love about Shearwaters is the ui is so good you don't need to read the manual (but never hurts).

I've found it to be comparable to scubapro Galileo in regards to how intuitive it is. Basic functionality in both computers is easily figured out without much effort. Some of the better features of either computer do require some time with the book. For example there was a recent thread where someone was complaining about the depth limit in shearwater's dive planner, and another user pointed out that it was a configurable option buried somewhere.

I don't see what any of this has to do with sidemount, though

 

[raftingtigger]

Think you can make this and sell it for cheaper than they do?

DECO - Dive Equipment Company - DECO Sidemount Bladder 22# w/ 19 inch Hose

If so, I would probably be interested in some point. I just got an Apeks rig with a 45# wing. Once I learn how to dive it, get it configured how I like it, etc., I think I might be interested in getting a smaller "warm water" wing to use with it. I haven't priced the Apeks 25# wing yet, but I'm expecting it to be quite a bit more (even at shop cost) than the DECO wing. Thus, I figured I might end up getting the DECO wing, instead of the Apeks one. I'm cheap. If you make something functionally equivalent, I would definitely consider buying one.

Do you think the heat seal on a wing like that will hold up to many multiple times of inflating the wing to the point that the OPV dumps gas? And if it's left in the back of a car in the direct sun it won't get so hot that it loses it's "grip"?

NOT EVEN THINKING ABOUT SELLING THEM! For me with all my experimentation I am still way ahead on saving money. Plus it is fun to make stuff. Total cost for 2 cold water wings: Fabric $8 (plus $6 shipping), Grommets and setting kit $10. I might even post a tutorial in the DIY section.

For the durability: Heat causing the seam to lose it's grip isn't the issue - it is melted together. Breakdown of the fabric might be - but what do you think the commercial ones are made of and how? Pretty much what I am doing with industrial tools. The latest seam on the pvc coated fabric looks and feels as strong as anything I have seen on anything. The heat sealable fabrics I'm not as confident with, so they all get a 'safety' seam that is sealed with AquaSeal. This way if the melted seam parts then there is only a small leak rather than a "blow out" of the seam.

 

[stuartv]

NOT EVEN THINKING ABOUT SELLING THEM! For me with all my experimentation I am still way ahead on saving money. Plus it is fun to make stuff. Total cost for 2 cold water wings: Fabric $8 (plus $6 shipping), Grommets and setting kit $10. I might even post a tutorial in the DIY section.

For the durability: Heat causing the seam to lose it's grip isn't the issue - it is melted together. Breakdown of the fabric might be - but what do you think the commercial ones are made of and how? Pretty much what I am doing with industrial tools. The latest seam on the pvc coated fabric looks and feels as strong as anything I have seen on anything. The heat sealable fabrics I'm not as confident with, so they all get a 'safety' seam that is sealed with AquaSeal. This way if the melted seam parts then there is only a small leak rather than a "blow out" of the seam.

Gotcha. I don't think I would want to manufacture any kind of scuba gear for sale, either. I bet 1/3 the cost of every piece of scuba gear is ultimately paid to insurance companies....

As for how the commercial stuff is made, I figured seams were "RF welded" or "ultrasonic welded" or some other cool-sounding buzzword that I've seen. I would not have guessed it's the kind of heat you can get from a normal consumer clothes iron. Cool!

Okay, the DECO bladder is back on the table for me. ;-)

 

[kafkaland]

Sidemount diving is highly individual, and what works for one person might not work for another. Having said that, let me tell you about my experience and how I ended up with two distinct rigs, one for cold water diving in the Great Lakes, with steel tanks and drysuit, and another for the caves in MX, with wet suit and AL80s. I think it's important to note that this is really about the whole set-up, and not just one piece, like can you use Al tanks with this harness, or do you need a butt plate when diving steel tanks on that one.

I started out with the Halcyon Contour, thinking that I could use it for both kinds of diving. Did my sidemount course with steel tanks in dry suit, and then off to MX for my cavern and intro cave course. I made it through ok with that rig, but as I started to dive more in the Mexican caves I became frustrated with the big wing that tended to trap air. With wet suit and AL80s, I needed six pounds of lead and had to break trim quite a bit to get most of the air out of the wing. Then I tried a Razor harness instead, and didn't had that problem any more. No lead needed, and completely emptying the much smaller wing wasn't hard. Besides, I liked the idea of having a second small wing for redundant buoyancy, even though I didn't strictly need it as the rig is very closed to balanced. I loved how well everything trimmed out, and went on to full cave and a good umber of cave dives there in this rig since then.

For the Great Lakes, I still use the Contour. I am diving two HP119s, an additional deco bottle if needed, and a dry suit there. For this, I need the larger wing; I don't think the Razor can handle all that weight especially if the dry suit floods. And since I need a bit of air in the wing anyway to make up for the weight of the steel tanks, difficulties in getting the last bit of air out of the wing don't matter as much.

Finally, it took me a long time to readjust the Contour harness every time I took it from cold water diving to warm water diving. In sidemount, it's very important to have everything adjusted just right, or it won't trim out properly. So getting a second harness solved that problem - the Contour is now permanently adjusted for dry suit diving, and the Razor for wet suit. Makes live quite a bit easier, and for me at least worth spending the money on the additional harness.

 

[stuartv]

That all makes sense. Except on question:

I need a bit of air in the wing anyway to make up for the weight of the steel tanks, difficulties in getting the last bit of air out of the wing don't matter as much.

You aren't able to weight yourself where you are neutral with an empty wing at the end of your dive?

Or, is this a case of any "normal" dive in that configuration is always going to end with a few pounds of gas left in the various cylinders you're carrying? So you're normally going to have some air in the wing to compensate for the gas reserves that you finish with (when the dive goes as planned, anyway).

 

[Marktan]

... Of course, one friend decided to use it for warm water and AL80s. ...

Hey, I resemble that remark! I love the SMS75. Was looking at the SMS50/Katana but a friend was getting rid of his SMS75 to go with a Mexico style rig, so I bought it from him. Glad I did. As much criticism it gets for being convertible, it's come in handy when I travel and the dive ops want everyone on back mount singles. Also the reason for the AL80s is that it's what we tend to find when we are travelling, and I don't dive with a dry suit.

 

[kafkaland]

That all makes sense. Except on question:



You aren't able to weight yourself where you are neutral with an empty wing at the end of your dive?

Or, is this a case of any "normal" dive in that configuration is always going to end with a few pounds of gas left in the various cylinders you're carrying? So you're normally going to have some air in the wing to compensate for the gas reserves that you finish with (when the dive goes as planned, anyway).

In the cold water configuration I am always negative in fresh water (maybe just barely neutral when the tanks are close to empty), without carrying any lead. The steel tanks plus the canister light are that heavy. And that's why I usually end up with a bit of air in my wing and dry suit, no matter what, and so I don't mind that it's difficult to squeeze out the last bit of air from that wing.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

What is it that makes a steel tank require those rails? I thought the Drop D-rings that are coming on some rigs now make it where you can use steels without the butt plate.

I saw a post (maybe earlier in this thread?) about adding D-rings towards the front of your waist belt that you could clip steels to, in the case that you were on the surface and wanted to swim on your back. Does that not work? I suppose the top of the tank could still droop down behind you when you do that?

I'm stating that from Andy Davis's advise. I'd have to scour his website for a link on this, but I've seen him mention it a number of times on social media.

 

[decompression]

I'm stating that from Andy Davis's advise. I'd have to scour his website for a link on this, but I've seen him mention it a number of times on social media.

Steels do not really "require" door handles, in fact my preference is to not use them at all. D rings are just simpler and feel more secure. In a few of my rigs I have upper and lower D rings to move the Al tanks to keep streamlined, these can certainly be used for steels when swimming on your back, but depending on the tank, swimming on your back on SM for a long time Is a pain. And even more so with large steels.

 

[undrwater]

I might even post a tutorial in the DIY section.

Please, please, please!