Trim Problem

[TSandM]

Hard to know, but your tank is up pretty high. Where are you carrying your weights?

 

[Soakedlontra]

Sarcastic comment #1: You're dog-paddling all wrong. More arms, less legs.

I guess I was not in the mood to dog-paddle

comment #2: You're diving in green water. (manual white balance before recording)

Green water? Manual white balance? You should consider yourself lucky that you can actually see a diver in there!

need to move more ballast from your head down toward your feet. Shift the tank down a little. Ankle weights? Heavier fins? Are you wearing gaiters? I can't really tell from the video. With baggy drysuit legs, it's possible to trap more air in the lower extremities. Gaiters can be helpful in this case. Sometimes it can be helpful to add a fleece top, which should trap more air in your torso (then add any additional offsetting lead to the hip region). This has the positive side benefit of keeping you a little warmer, which is not such a bad thing in the PNW (I imagine).
From the video, I can't really tell if you're running a lot of air in your legs.

Can you describe to us where all of your lead is distributed?

I don't use gaiters. I wear a Whites MK3 undergarment so I don't think I could fit a fleece top underneath it... During that dive I was wearing a 1lb ankle weights (first time ever). My back plate is about 4.7 lbs and I had a weight belt with 15lbs. The 'baginess' of the lower part of the legs of my dry suit is caused by external flaps that I keep tight together with zips and velcro. Air cannot go there (I wear a Mobby's shell suit). I was trying to hover in about 20 fsw. During a normal dive I don't have this problem just because I keep moving even if slightly. It is only when I want to hover motionless neutrally buoyant that I have noticed this tendency of going feet up and head down. I don't think that I had too much air in the suit I try to keep a minimum amount to reduced suit squeeze.

What happens if you get vertical, embrace the lower body squeeze, and then return to a horizontal position while keeping knees flexed? Are you less head-heavy then? Just a thought.

I don't know. I have to try it. I will keep you posted.

, are you especially fond of otters?

....maybe!

Sorry for the short video. The next one will be more green and longer!


Cheers

 

[Soakedlontra]

I don't know what's wrong with your trim but I do want to go to that Dominican Republic school of side mounting.

...What?....AH! Don't get distracted please!

 

[Soakedlontra]

I think the clip is too short to get a really good sense of the problem. I agree that it seems to indicate air trapped in the legs, but if so, we start the clip with the air already there. You are already starting to invert at the start, and you never really get back to whatever is normal.

Is this a constant occurrence throughout the dive, or does it happen at moments? Is there a time when you are feeling OK during the dive?

I would like to see a longer version so I can see a time when you are not already in a battle.

From what I remember I could stay still horizontal for few seconds and then slowly my feet would go up. Now I am wondering if depth could make this worse. In other words was I doing it because I was just at 20fsw? When I dive at deeper depths I don't recall this problem being so evident...or maybe am I kidding myself? I need to try it out all over again and I will tell my buddy to make the video clip longer!

 

[Soakedlontra]

I had a problem with floaty feet when I first started. My diving mentor told me to arch my back. Head up feet up in a frog kick position and stomach down kind of in a U shape. It always seems to work for me wet or dry. I'm sure heavier fins would help as well. It could also be a problem with too much air in your drysuit going to your legs.

Try the arching, or less air in drysuit or gaiters. Too many variables to pin it down but there are alot of things you could try......

I don't think that arching my back is the right thing for me because it would cause me back pain! (can you arch your back without getting back pain?)

 

[Soakedlontra]

Hard to know, but your tank is up pretty high. Where are you carrying your weights?

I did a second dive after that one. Sorry no video because it was a night dive and it would have been really complicated to try to use the camera.

I lowered my tank and used two 2lbs ankle weights. It seemed to me that I was more stable in that way but I have to try it again.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

I don't use gaiters. I wear a Whites MK3 undergarment so I don't think I could fit a fleece top underneath it...

Agreed. Adding a fleece top underneath the MK3 is probably not an option.

During that dive I was wearing a 1lb ankle weights (first time ever). My back plate is about 4.7 lbs and I had a weight belt with 15lbs. The 'baginess' of the lower part of the legs of my dry suit is caused by external flaps that I keep tight together with zips and velcro. Air cannot go there (I wear a Mobby's shell suit). I was trying to hover in about 20 fsw. During a normal dive I don't have this problem just because I keep moving even if slightly. It is only when I want to hover motionless neutrally buoyant that I have noticed this tendency of going feet up and head down. I don't think that I had too much air in the suit I try to keep a minimum amount to reduced suit squeeze.

OK. I think that gives us a pretty good picture of your gear configuration. I'm not familiar with the Moby's drysuit or the "external flaps" that you keep cinched down with zippers/velcro. It sounds like, whatever it is, it's working like gaiters would anyway.

Here's some stuff to try:

• You could mount your tank a little lower.
• You could lose the ankle weights and borrow a pair of Jetfins for a dive. They should fit your Chuck Taylors just fine. I believe that each Jetfin is slightly more negative than 1 lb. I'm sure someone in the local diving community could help you out with this.
• You could switch to a weight harness. I know that my DUI Weight & Trim harness allows me to position the weight much lower on my body than with a conventional weight belt. Perhaps you could borrow this from a local diver, too.

Let us know how it goes...

 

[TSandM]

Well, a lot of people don't like ankle weights, but then again, a lot of us dive Jet fins, which are negative, with springs straps, which are also negative.

Moving the tank down, keeping your head up, maybe putting a little air in the drysuit behind your shoulders, and possibly using ankle weights (and if you do, try not bending your knees quite so much, because the more your feet are out behind you, the more lever arm the weights on your ankles have to correct your trim) -- those are all strategies you can try.

When people say "arch your back" it isn't really arching your low back -- it's more lifting your shoulders and your knees just a bit. I like to envision making myself as "long" as possible from shoulders to knees. That works for me.

 

[ae3753]

Moving the tank down, keeping your head up, maybe putting a little air in the drysuit behind your shoulders, and possibly using ankle weights (and if you do, try not bending your knees quite so much, because the more your feet are out behind you, the more lever arm the weights on your ankles have to correct your trim) -- those are all strategies you can try.

Here's a picture of the levers that TSandM discusses.

I have more information on my Horizontal Trim Levers page. I also have a list of things to try when you're feet light/head heavy on my Horizontal Trim Uses page.

Since you're in WA, I'd also recommend reaching out to Brian of Frog Kick Diving. Great instructor to work with.

Good luck!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Don, that's a very good article. I can think of a few folks who will benefit from reading it. Thanks for the link.

Betty, when I get back home, let's set up a dive. I've got a couple things in mind I want you to try (including a dive using Cheng's Jet fins) ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)