Weight Integrated BC Question

[rainmaker]

I'm a recently certified diver who has lower back problems. It is important to me that I not have to lift my BC/regulator/ tank and weights at the same time when suiting-up (I realize I have to lift it all when making my way to the water. The difference is, I only have to lift it all once, instead of twice). I also need to remove my weights before exiting the water.

At the end of each of my training dives, I'd remove my weight belt (as well as my fins) in order to avoid having to climb the ladder with 20 pounds of extra weight. No one said anything, so I assumed I wasn't breaking anyone's long-standing traditions or violating any safety rules.

I'm now ready to buy my gear, and I've been leaning toward a non-weight integrated BC, so I can continue to put on my BC/tank/regulator and weights separately, and exit the water (climb the ladder) without my weights. However, the owner of the LDS where I took my training suggested that I buy a weight integrated BC with removable weight pockets, so I could put on all my gear, then insert the weights.

I did some research and found that most weight integrated BC's have about 10 pounds of "non-diver releasable" weights that are there for "improved weight distribution and balance".

If I used one of these BC's and I'm diving with 20 pounds of weight, it appears that I'm going to have to exit the water with 10 extra pounds of weight that cannot be removed from the BC. This may not sound like a lot to most divers, but for me, it is significant. On a bad-back day, this could mean the difference between a pleasant dive and a back spasm.

Also, I guess I'm missing something. If I'm ever involved in an OOA emergency and (for whatever reason) my buddy is nowhere in sight, I'm going to need to drop my weights and head for the surface. At that point, how important is having an extra 10 pounds of weight for the sake of "improved weight distribution and balance" going to be? Isn't this extra weight just going to hinder my efforts to become positively buoyant?

I suppose I'm still thinking that a non-weight integrated BC and weight belt is the best choice for me. Suggestions, comments and advice will be greatly appreciated.

 

[rab]

Just because a BC is capable of holding weights doesn't mean that you can't choose to use a weight belt instead. Also, you may be able to put all the weight you need into the ditchable/removable part and not use the rear pockets at all.

Oh, and you don't

"need to drop my weights and head for the surface"

You typically go to the surface and then ditch weights if you can't maintain positive buoyancy at the surface. Depending on the exposure protection you're wearing, the lack of weights could send you to the surface much faster than you want to go!

-Rob

 

[Geezer]

Many weight-integrated BC allow the option to place a portion of the weight in non-releasable (or hard to release) pockets, separate from the integrated pouches. Typically these pockets are on the back, on either side of where the tank goes. At that location, they help counter the positive bouyancy of a near-empty aluminum tank, and allow a diver (usually with a back-inflate BC) to float a little more vertical on the surface. Putting weight in these back pockets is optional, and you'll find other ways of adjusting weight and boyancy as you gain experience.

You may get suggestions to use the search function on the board - also a good idea, because there have been lots of discussions on this topic.

 

[wcl]

Hi,

I can relate some of my own experiences with a weight-integrated BC that perhaps may help. I have a Scubapro Knighthawk (back inflate BC).

This BC has two removable weight pockets at the belt by the front of the hips. This is where the bulk of my wieghts go, they are ditchable with fasttek buckles, and I routinely insert the weights as one of the late stages in gearing up. [Of course, one must always do a final full-gear check before entry ... would not want to forget anything, like those last minute weights!].

It also has two non-ditchable weight pouches at the back of the BC, more or less behind your shoulderblades. On this BC, these are used really only for trim adjustment. At most, I have put 4# total in these (2 x 2#), if I have a bunch of weight in the pockets (wearing a 7mm wetsuit, for example). I often dive without any trim weights (3mm wetsuit, for example).

That's my Scubapro Knighthawk ... other BCs may have different setups that have more nonditchable portions.

If properly weighted, you should not need to ditch a lot of weight to become positively bouyant. If I drop one pocket (which I tested once while firmly anchored to a concrete block), I would surface pretty well right there; dropping both pockets would seem like it would rocket me up right good. I have often seen it advised to assemble weight systems that allow for several separately ditchable portions for this reason.

You could split the difference and have both an integrated weight BC and some other weight system too (still keep the belt), though that becomes more to manage.

Hope that helps,

Cheers,
Walter

 

[ScubaFreak]

Weight integrated BC's in my opinion are great. With practice, they can actually reduce the overall weight that you normally carry with the weightbelt, as they distribute the weight more comfortably and evenly on the torso. The two trim weight pockets on the back of the BCD can help with positioning as mentioned by Geezer, and if used properly, you can reduce the weight on your belt/BC pockets and distribute some of it to the trim pockets at the back! This can really be a big help and take the pressure off your lower back!

Good luck!

SF

 

[Web Monkey]

Whether or not you climb the ladder with or without weights will only change things by 10 or 20 pounds.

If you can restrict your diving to places with reasonably calm water, you can use a weight-integrated BC and put it on and take it off in the water, which will save you from having to climb a laddder wearing 50+ pounds of equipment.

Terry

I'm a recently certified diver who has lower back problems. It is important to me that I not have to lift my BC/regulator/ tank and weights at the same time when suiting-up (I realize I have to lift it all when making my way to the water. The difference is, I only have to lift it all once, instead of twice). I also need to remove my weights before exiting the water.

At the end of each of my training dives, I'd remove my weight belt (as well as my fins) in order to avoid having to climb the ladder with 20 pounds of extra weight. No one said anything, so I assumed I wasn't breaking anyone's long-standing traditions or violating any safety rules.

I'm now ready to buy my gear, and I've been leaning toward a non-weight integrated BC, so I can continue to put on my BC/tank/regulator and weights separately, and exit the water (climb the ladder) without my weights. However, the owner of the LDS where I took my training suggested that I buy a weight integrated BC with removable weight pockets, so I could put on all my gear, then insert the weights.

I did some research and found that most weight integrated BC's have about 10 pounds of "non-diver releasable" weights that are there for "improved weight distribution and balance".

If I used one of these BC's and I'm diving with 20 pounds of weight, it appears that I'm going to have to exit the water with 10 extra pounds of weight that cannot be removed from the BC. This may not sound like a lot to most divers, but for me, it is significant. On a bad-back day, this could mean the difference between a pleasant dive and a back spasm.

Also, I guess I'm missing something. If I'm ever involved in an OOA emergency and (for whatever reason) my buddy is nowhere in sight, I'm going to need to drop my weights and head for the surface. At that point, how important is having an extra 10 pounds of weight for the sake of "improved weight distribution and balance" going to be? Isn't this extra weight just going to hinder my efforts to become positively buoyant?

I suppose I'm still thinking that a non-weight integrated BC and weight belt is the best choice for me. Suggestions, comments and advice will be greatly appreciated.

 

[O2BBubbleFree]

I'm no expert, but wanted to add my suggestions...

I have a Zeagle Ranger that I love, but the weight pouches are nearly impossible to put in or take out while wearing the BC. Mine's an older model, and things may have changed, but I wanted to illustrate that if you are going to be removing/replacing the weight on a regular basis, make sure and try out whatever BCs you are considering buying while wearing it, with the cumberbund/waiste belt tight, etc. Try to simulate in-water conditions as much as possible. If the LDS will let you try it in the pool, so much the better.

If I am in a situation where I want to remove/replace the weight pouches, I'll probably have to remove the BC first.

A general suggestion on WI BCs, avoid velcro like the plague. Whatever holds the weight pouches in place needs to hold them securly, and velcro wears out quickly. Especially if you are removing/replacing regularly, as you mentioned.

 

[herman]

Most all of the weight intergrated BC have some sort of weight pockets, Zeagle for instance has a zippered pocket in the BC into which you drop a mesh bag with the weights in it. Others have pockets that kind of slide in from the sides. Trouble is on a lot of BC's it's very difficult to install the weight pockets with the BC on.
The 10lbs refers to the max weight the trim pockets are rated for, not how much you must put in them. I find a 60 frount/40 back ratio works for me. It's your choice of the amount you put in them 0 to the max(10lbs or whatever). I will say the improved trim is well worth it.
As for not being able to dump the extra weight.....I may stir up something here but just exactly when should you dump any, much less all your weights at depth (the surface is a totally different matter)? Think about it, if you are properly weighted you only have enough weight on to offset the buoyancy of your wetsuit and the used up air from the tank, anything more is overweighting. Now consider what happens if you are properly weighted and neutrally buoyant at depth. If you dump your weights at depth and start to accend, your wetsuit and the air in your BC starts to expand increasing your buoyancy and you stat to lose a lot of your ability to do a controlled acccent and if you are way over weighted, as most new divers are, you may loose total control of your accent...not good. From a dropping weight standpoint, dropping some of your weights is a lot safer than dropping them all and so far no one has convinced me that dropping any weights at depth is ever a good idea. If you are properly weighted, a couple of kicks up and the expansion in your wetsuit and BC should do the rest.
Lastly, I would like to suggest you do a good weight check. Unless you are diving a lot of wetsuit, 20lbs is quite a bit.

 

[perpet1]

If I'm ever involved in an OOA emergency and (for whatever reason) my buddy is nowhere in sight, I'm going to need to drop my weights and head for the surface.

Dropping your weights should always be a LAST resort. You were trained to do an emergency swimming ascent and for that you need your weights. Once again, dropping your weights should not be the first thing you think of when you are OOA and your buddy is not around.

At that point, how important is having an extra 10 pounds of weight for the sake of "improved weight distribution and balance" going to be? Isn't this extra weight just going to hinder my efforts to become positively buoyant?

You are absolutly correct if you start off 20# overweighted but if you are close to neutral when you start then dumping all but 20 (in your case) should make you shoot up just fine. I do not recommend testing this inless it is a last resort.

 

[rainmaker]

I really appreciate all the great suggestions and advice. As usual, I learn something every time I visit ScubaBoard.

Although I admittedly didn't elaborate concerning what I mentioned about dropping weight at depth, I was referring to what I learned in training about trying to save your life (when all else fails). I looked it up in the SDI training manual, which states:

"The Buoyant Ascent is a dangerous maneuver and should only be attempted in a last-ditch effort to avoid drowning. The difference between a controlled swimming ascent and a buoyant out-of-air ascent is that in the latter the diver removes weights before ascending."