Weight Integrated BC Question

[diversteve]

I don't mean to sound like a Zeagle commercial but here's an option:

Zeagle's Ranger LTD is a weight integrated BC that can drop both front and back weights. The front weights are in pockets and can be dropped using their ripcord system, the back weight pockets are around the tank and can be manually dropped by pulling a velcro release on each pocket.

If you're slim to normal, you can put the weights in while still sitting down, but in my experience once you lift the tank weight onto your back, the front tightens up and it's almost impossible to do. My weights are lead shot in a Zeagle provided bag that fits the pocket shape, my buddy who also dives with a Zeagle, uses hard weights in the front pockets. I've seen him add weight underwater to the front pockets, but he's thin, my belly gets in the way, also the stress from the tank is probably less in the water.

The last couple of trips I've been on, on at least a couple of dives, I've removed my BC completely in the water and handed it up to the crew. It has a little strap designed to keep the tank valve from banging around that also doubles as a nice handle for them.

My problem is bad knees, and I'm clumsy so it's much easier getting out w/o my pack.

 

[wcl]

I really appreciate all the great suggestions and advice. As usual, I learn something every time I visit ScubaBoard.

Although I admittedly didn't elaborabe concerning what I mentioned about dropping weight at depth, I was referring to what I learned in training about trying to save your life (when all else fails). I looked it up in the SDI training manual, which states:

"The Buoyant Ascent is a dangerous maneuver and should only be attempted in a last-ditch effort to avoid drowning. The difference between a controlled swimming ascent and a buoyant out-of-air ascent is that in the latter the diver removes weights before ascending."

The only other condition I could envision needing to drop some weight is in the event of a catastrophic failure of your buoyancy systems (BC, drysuit) that you could not overcome by swimming or grabbing hold of (or sitting on) something (buddy included, though I would not want to be an anchor on my buddy; they would have to be actively engaged to help) ... runaway descent, basically. Trick would be not dropping too much. Highly unusual circumstance, I am hoping (given one starting properly weighted in the first place), and pretty much in that same "drop weights or die" category.

Generally speaking, I have wanted my weights to stay firmly where I put them, since I try to dive as light as I can even as a newbie still working on things, but it is light enough to make me really worried that if I drop one I'll do a polaris ...

Cheers,
Walter

 

[perpet1]

That is cool and I was not trying to one up you at all it is just that there are a lot of people out there that believe it is propper to ditch and dart if they are OOA. I actually know somone who did it and then had a chamber ride for the effort.

The reality is, and there are a lot of threads in here that go into this, that OOA is a condition one can avouid if they pay attention. Given the fact the mistakes happen it is still not a condition you should panic in. That all said you should always think ESA (or CSA) before you ditch.

 

[kfds]

take it off in the water, which will save you from having to climb a laddder wearing 50+ pounds of equipment.

Ditto! Had the pleasure of diving with a shop that had ropes on the port and starboard that you could hang on to, in order to first, hand up your removable BC integrated weight, then to hand up your BC. Getting on that boat was a pleasure and not a chore.

They even had a platform on the back to sit on. The procedure was to climb the ladder and scoot up on the platform and then remove your fins while sitting. Sounds like a minor difference from removing you fins in the water first, but it just made it that much easier.

 

[Wijbrandus]

I don't have much of a pony in this race, since I use a weight harness and a backplate. I like that much better than any other sort of jacket bcd, and I cannot stand weight integration because of all the weight in one package. Hard as hell to get on and off. My kit I can do in stages with no problem.

However, my AOW Dive Iinstructor told me that if I ever have to ditch weights underwater at any depth, I'd better be almost dead. His point of view was that while a CESA from 60' is manageable, an uncontrolled ascent from that depth is easily fatal. A panicked diver at that depth that drops weights and ejects for the surface is going to pop a lung at worst, and bent most likely.

I don't know if he was trying to scare me off of the whole idea, but I've always made damn sure my weights are under control ever since.

I've had zero experience with either situation in real life, but based on my understanding, weights stay on until you break the surface. Then they are optional.

 

[FatCat]

I'm a recently certified diver who has lower back problems. It is important to me that I not have to lift my BC/regulator/ tank and weights at the same time when suiting-up (I realize I have to lift it all when making my way to the water. The difference is, I only have to lift it all once, instead of twice). I also need to remove my weights before exiting the water.

I'll have a go at your back problems if I may. To give you an indication of what I have had to overcome: in 1998 I was in a car crash that left me with extensive spinal damage. I was told by the neurosurgeon that I would never be able to lift more than 20 kg (say 44 lbs) again. Yeah, right.

I don't know what your specific ailments are, but for me losing weight (about ten kg) and low-impact abdominal exercise did the trick. I now have adequate musculature to support my spine.

This doesn't mean that I don't have to be careful what to do though.

First thing you need to realise is that ergonomics is very important to you. Choose a BC that fits. And I mean: really fits! Don't let them fob you off with a loose fitting, wobbly BC. Try it on with a tank mounted on it. It should fit snugly over the suit you'd normally wear. Go for a BC with an ergonomically shaped HARD backpack. Yes, the backback may be padded for extra comfort, but the basic structure should be rigid. Once you have the BC on, your tank may not wobble. The weight should be evenly distributed over your shoulder muscles and your back. The tank may not push into the small of your back.

Now for a weight system: try a weight harness. There are harness systems that are basically pouch belts with suspenders. I find these are the best for ME. They allow you to ditch about half your weights, which should be enough for "try-or-die" emergencies where you need to go for a buoyant ascent.

Or you could go for the kind that has weight pouches. Try those on together with your BC though, they might pinch.

You're probably thinking that you won't be able to carry all that weight around. If your back condition is comparable to mine, you're wrong. If the weight is well distributed over your shoulders and your abdominal and back muscles (your back muscles won't work without your abs), you'll be surprised at how comfortable you'll be.

Most of the pain is caused by ill-fitting equipment.

Hope this helps.

 

[RiverRat]

I don't want to sound like a backplate fanatic (ok maybe a little) but I like the idea of removing the BC in water and keeping your fins on. On some boats it could be an issue. In any event, whether backplate/wing or weight integrated BC having less weight (like a VERY heavy weightbelt) around your lower back might be key. This would depend on your specific back problem I would assume. In the water you're neutral so it won't matter to your back (having the weight over you buoyant lungs). If you have a too heavy weightbelt this can cause problems at the surface with an empty AL80 and inflated BC. Get trimmed out and removing the BC before climbing out may help.

 

[jbd]

I'm now ready to buy my gear, and I've been leaning toward a non-weight integrated BC, so I can continue to put on my BC/tank/regulator and weights separately, and exit the water (climb the ladder) without my weights. However, the owner of the LDS where I took my training suggested that I buy a weight integrated BC with removable weight pockets, so I could put on all my gear, then insert the weights.

I don't see that a weight intergrated BC is any better than the non weight intergrated BC you trained with. What is the difference between putting on BC and then a weight belt, and putting on a BC and inserting weight removable weight pockets? I don't see that the LDS owner has come up with an improvement to your situation.

One thing I like about a weight belt is that I can move it around during a dive to change my attitude. I can also rotate it around my body so I can swim on my side with no effort to stay on my side. I do this when I want to watch a student for fairly long periods of time.

Weight belts are far more flexible regarding how much weight you can take. Weight intergrated has pretty definite limits.

As Web Monkey noted, you can remove your weight pockets or your weight belt and your BC before you reboard the boat. Doing so will take a load off.

If you are comfortable using a non intergrated BC then by all means buy one. I have one and love it.

 

[FatCat]

I don't see that a weight intergrated BC is any better than the non weight intergrated BC you trained with. What is the difference between putting on BC and then a weight belt, and putting on a BC and inserting weight removable weight pockets? I don't see that the LDS owner has come up with an improvement to your situation.

The difference is that traditional weight belts, especially those with hard weights, are hell for people with damage to the lumbar region (usually damage around L4-L5). The weights press on the pelvis and cause a posture where the back is arched. This puts extreme pressure on the lower spine.

Weight integrated BC's might not be the best option, I agree. I vote for a harness system. But even a weight-integrated BC is definitely better and more ergonomical than an ordinary weight belt, even one with pouches for soft lead.

Judging from the reactions I usually get from people who do not suffer from spinal damage, I believe you guys have absolutely no idea how excruciatingly painful such a condition is. Nor do you realise how badly most BC's are designed.

 

[rainmaker]

I truly appreciate the thought and effort that has gone into the posts on this thread. It has given me a lot to think about, and I've certainly gained some knowledge.

I'm new to scuba, but I'm not new to back problems. My history is in long-distance hiking/trekking (backpacking), and a doctor told me in 1991 that I had only about 5 years left to hike (because the two lower discs were deteoriating). Since then, I have carried a fully loaded pack over 6,000 miles, completing most of the long trails in North America in the process. And I'm still doing it. However, at times I have hurt so badly I've barely been able to walk.

Anyway, I learned from backpacking that I need to distribute the weight in my pack. Using a hip-belt, I can transfer about 40% of the load to my hips. With the remaining 60% of weight on my shoulders (and keeping the pack off my lower spine by using an external frame pack), I can hike. I also know that by keeping my spine straight, I can do a moderate amount of lifting (I still work out with 30 lbs. of weights twice per week). I also keep my weight down (6' 2" and weigh 170) and walk 3 miles per day in mountainous terrain.

Since I need to keep some weight on my hips (and not put the whole amount on my shoulders), I'm leaning toward the non-weight integrated BC and using a weight belt. For my particular back problems (everyone's back is different), I think this is the best I can do.

I got into scuba partly because I thought it would be easier on my back. So far, scuba has beat the living cr*p out of me. While I can lift my loaded backpack with one finger of one hand, I'm desperately trying to figure out how to safely suit-up and maneuver about 60 pounds of scuba gear to the water. Then, when I exit the water, I have to dangerously arch my back to climb a ladder. Also, during certification, I was miserably cold each time I got wet and had two brushes with hypothermia. In addition, I've got some instructor-induced barotrauma (I was paired with the instructor on the 4th cert dive, and he made a hot descent. Instead of waiting on the surface until he realized he'd "lost" a student and came back, I mistakenly made the hot descent with him).

So, at the present time, I'm taking a little time off from diving, staying warm, not lifting heavy things and thinking about buying gear and diving in warm weather and water.

(I regret if anyone is offended because they were subjected to some hiking/trekking info on a scuba forum. I mentioned it only as it relates to the weight/lower back issue of scuba.)