Your images, where?

[rhadamantus]

geoff- u might have misunderstood Kim's post.

i don't think a certificate is what is required here. you may have attended the most expensive training somewhere but it does not automatically raise your level of excellence a notch.

what is being asked is a verifiable support of a claim. if someone starts saying some ****s about something, it will save everyone's *** unnecessary efforts on trying to make some sense about it if there is some sort of a support for it.

 

[Geoff_H]

I don't think I mis-understood Kim's post in the slightest.

My point is why should photographers have to provide a higher burden of proof than any other member of the Scubaboard community posting on this board?

 

[Kim]

how they evidence their claims

This is exactly the point of this thread/poll.

It is obvious why you are posting this poll, and obvious you are frustrated with f3nikon giving opinions you disagree with.

While a particular situation, or repeat of many situations, might trigger an idea - it would be intended to apply to everyone, for the benefit of the quality, and verifiability, of information posted on this site. It's not aimed solely at one individual.

However have you actually thought how you would go about implementing your idea? Where should it stop?

Well....let's look at that....

Instructors should post their certifications before replying to divers?

They already do. The instructors panel is set up exactly in that way. You have to show your credentials to be accepted as an Instructor (or DM) on this board.

People offering advice on their local diving should post utility bills to prove they life there?

I don't know about utility bills, but if someone posts unsubstantiated stuff about some local issue or other, what's wrong with asking for proof?

Medics and Doctors should post their degrees and training before offering advice?

Absolutely. Although I'm fairly sure that no Doctor or Medic speaks in a fully professional role on the board. There would be all kinds of issues of responsibility if the advice given here could be viewed in that way. In my experience though all the Doctors and Medics who post here make it VERY clear who they are - and the limits of their advice. I've yet to see a charlatan spreading erroneous advice (although, sometimes non-medical members do do exactly that. Thank God we have some here to control that.

Public Safety divers should post pictures of corspes they've personally recovered?

Why? Again...like the Medics they know their own and are very self policing.

Spearfishers have to post corrobated evidence of their catches?

What's special about a spearfisherman? Have spear...will hunt. Big deal.

DIR divers have to post pictures of them sucking down 3 litres of any kool-aid (ok ok I'll stop here)

You probably better should. They just got their own even more protected forum where you actually need permission from the guards to get in. The control is fully in place.

My point is why should photographers have to provide a higher burden of proof than any other member of the Scubaboard community posting on this board?

As you can see they wouldn't. I already said - it's not about a closed or restricted forum, it's about whether people should be held to some burden of proof if they start making claims that can impact others somehow. With photography it's not life or death....but it's definitely potentially financial. What's wrong with requiring people to back their claims up somehow?
Often the best way in photography is to see if they can walk the walk - and we do that by looking at the pictures!
Any self-respecting photographer is quite prepared to put their photos on view. What's the point otherwise? Self-indulgence?

Anyway. It's not just how I think about it. That's why it's a poll. To see what others think.......

 

[tridacna]

geoff- u might have misunderstood Kim's post.

i don't think a certificate is what is required here. you may have attended the most expensive training somewhere but it does not automatically raise your level of excellence a notch.

what is being asked is a verifiable support of a claim. if someone starts saying some ****s about something, it will save everyone's *** unnecessary efforts on trying to make some sense about it if there is some sort of a support for it.

Geoff is completely correct. Would you also like to see some videos of the DIR experts diving (There's some real BS), or perhaps even a video of how some instructor's teach. What about downloading the dive profiles of those that claim they breathe better than anyone else? I seen some great advice on the board (and lousy advice too). But posters quickly help you sort out the garbage. It don't take long for JeffG to shoot them down! That's the beauty of the board.

ps How would you even know if the pictures were taken by the posters? This is petty and silly.

 

[Geoff_H]

They already do. The instructors panel is set up exactly in that way. You have to show your credentials to be accepted as an Instructor (or DM) on this board.

That's instructor to instructor. On the other 123 forums (WASG) anyone can claim to be an instructor. Next.

I don't know about utility bills, but if someone posts unsubstantiated stuff about some local issue or other, what's wrong with asking for proof?

Other than the fact that of the people good advice in good spirit at least some would react negatively to being questioned?

Absolutely. Although I'm fairly sure that no Doctor or Medic speaks in a fully professional role on the board. There would be all kinds of issues of responsibility if the advice given here could be viewed in that way. In my experience though all the Doctors and Medics who post here make it VERY clear who they are - and the limits of their advice. I've yet to see a charlatan spreading erroneous advice (although, sometimes non-medical members do do exactly that. Thank God we have some here to control that.

Of course nobody speaks in a fully professional role. Don't set up strawman arguments. There are plenty of people who give advice on DCS and other issues without putting up evidence they know what they are talking about. If they are charlatans than one of my indicators kicks in very quickly

* how other people react to their postings

What's special about a spearfisherman? Have spear...will hunt. Big deal.

What's so special about a photographer? Have camera, will take photos. LOL.

As you can see they wouldn't. I already said - it's not about a closed or restricted forum, it's about whether people should be held to some burden of proof if they start making claims that can impact others somehow.

Any post on SB can affect others somehow.

 

[rhadamantus]

Geoff is completely correct. Would you also like to see some videos of the DIR experts diving (There's some real BS), or perhaps even a video of how some instructor's teach. What about downloading the dive profiles of those that claim they breathe better than anyone else? I seen some great advice on the board (and lousy advice too). But posters quickly help you sort out the garbage. It don't take long for JeffG to shoot them down! That's the beauty of the board.

ps How would you even know if the pictures were taken by the posters? This is petty and silly.

you are missing the point. it is not the ownership that is being disputed here. and you are going to extremes, now that is silly.

please re read my post and then reread yours.

 

[Kim]

You can't fly the Instructor badge unless you're in that group - and you have to prove it to get in.

Doctors & Medics? Sure there might be some undeclared ones flying around. If they declare themselves as Doctors to in some way underpin what they are saying it's a different situation. Then it's fair to know who they are really. That's why there are Medical Moderators.

Local knowledge? Normally it doesn't get questioned, and you'll note that I never said that someone had to provide anything up front. I stated "if asked to". If someone states something that doesn't add up, what's wrong with asking them where they are coming from? Be it in a local situation, or any other. You stated yourself: "how they evidence their claims?" Sounds like asking for proof to me. That's all I'm suggesting.

And yes.....any post on SB CAN affect others. That's why it's nice to try to ensure that effect will generally be beneficial - although of course to do that for 100% would be an impossibility.

Anyway....the poll is there. People can have their vote, and we can see if the majority agrees with you or not.

 

[Kim]

As the saying goes, "Put up or shut up".
Ber :lilbunny:

Exactly. That sums up my point completely.

Why wouldn't someone want to if they've nothing to hide?

A picture is worth a thousand words......

 

[Ber Rabbit]

Seems nobody else voting on this poll is confident enough to assess the posts of anyone else without objective evidence of their photography ability. Must admit I am surprised!

In some areas, no I'm not. I know very little about photography and seeing someone's work shows me if they take the kind of photos I'm interested in taking and I can take their advice to heart because I want to get the results they are getting. I don't even know who the photographers on the board ARE because I'm not even to a point where I can feel comfortable asking questions. I don't have a lot of time to peruse the board so the photography section doesn't get my attention.

When assessing the credibiilty of anyone online you draw clues from a number of sources:

* what they write
* how they write it
* how they evidence their claims
* how other people react to their postings
* if they posting confirms or contradicts your own thoughts
* how they react when challenged

To me, the above is easily enough to establish someone's credibilty.

While this is true not everyone wants to take the time to do that much research into someone's post history. The people who play in the photography forum regularly know who has a clue and who doesn't but the people who are just coming in there don't and may not see posts where "clueless" was pointed out.
Ber :lilbunny:

 

[Geoff_H]

In some areas, no I'm not. I know very little about photography and seeing someone's work shows me if they take the kind of photos I'm interested in taking and I can take their advice to heart because I want to get the results they are getting. I don't even know who the photographers on the board ARE because I'm not even to a point where I can feel comfortable asking questions. I don't have a lot of time to peruse the board so the photography section doesn't get my attention.

I don't read the forum regularly either. I just own a point and shoot, and carry it with me on a few dives - mostly to snap pictures of things I can't identify for future reference.

However - in that thread it's pretty easy to see every single person in there disagreeing with f3nikon, including some of the forum moderators who post beautiful pictures even I am familiar with (alcina).

If someone reading that thread isn't able to deduce credibilty from the litany of people disagreeing with f3nikon then I think it would be pretty easy to fool them with a few purloined photos too.

I stand by my opinion that a requirement to post photographs to back up your opinion is pointless at best and counterproductive at worst.