Zeagle Express Tech vs Zeagle Wicked Lite for first travel BC (first BC ever actually
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OP
ScubaERDoc
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I assume it was the 2 inch type right?
As far as weight pockets, I wonder what will work better, the Zip-touch from Zeagle or the XS Weight pockets. Big difference in price
As far as weight pockets, I wonder what will work better, the Zip-touch from Zeagle or the XS Weight pockets. Big difference in price
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i use the 1" strap on mine...not that i mind the 2" but wanted to see if the 1" made any difference on feel (if you know what i mean)...i had tried the xs pouches before and couldn't keep them in place (maybe i was doing it wrong) on my waist and it was kind of a PITA mounting them on the tank bands so i have the zeagle zip pouches as well and love them. i only use 6 lbs so they are more than adequate.
Yes there are a lot of integrated weight systems that just don't cut the mustard.
I was a charted boat captain,USCG Master/owner for 20 years and I watched divers fight with their equipment every day. Weight belts are a big barrier for new divers to overcome before becoming truely comfortable and confident in the water. They are an uncomfortable and unsafe system made unnecessary by having a weight integrated BC. Thus the reason that the big majority(at least in Florida and the Carribean where divers often make a hundread or more dives a year)
I view weights behind the divers back or along the side of a tank, adding more mass above the horizon divers centerline, as a very negative thing. This induces tank roll on the divers back and certainly does nothing to increase stability.
Better to put the weight on the edge of the plate, hanging over the hip as ballast to stop the tank from sliding around on the divers back with change of trim or direction.
Plan B could be to just pull all the straps tight, like a weight belt, to keep your rig from moving during the dive.
While at the surface, weights holding the BC down on my shoulders is what allows me to forgo the use of a crotch strap.
After 40 years of teaching and sport diving I still have a deep baritone voice. HaHa.
---------- Post added April 19th, 2012 at 09:41 AM ----------
If you dive with a weight belt please put in on last, not first. And when back on the boat take it off first, not last.
How exactly would you expect the weight belt to release in your senario?
The integrated weights on the Express Tech are designed to counter the inflated bladders lift and stop the BC from riding up while at the surface. But the tighter you pull on the single run of webbing in the standard harness the more up your armpits the rig goes, unless you put stips on the straps.
A Tarpon city employee fell overboard while walking on deck wearing a weight belt a while back and it cost him his life.
The release buckle being front and center with a right hand release is wonderful in theory.
(I missed replying with the quote to ER Doc, sorry for the confusion)
I was a charted boat captain,USCG Master/owner for 20 years and I watched divers fight with their equipment every day. Weight belts are a big barrier for new divers to overcome before becoming truely comfortable and confident in the water. They are an uncomfortable and unsafe system made unnecessary by having a weight integrated BC. Thus the reason that the big majority(at least in Florida and the Carribean where divers often make a hundread or more dives a year)
I view weights behind the divers back or along the side of a tank, adding more mass above the horizon divers centerline, as a very negative thing. This induces tank roll on the divers back and certainly does nothing to increase stability.
Better to put the weight on the edge of the plate, hanging over the hip as ballast to stop the tank from sliding around on the divers back with change of trim or direction.
Plan B could be to just pull all the straps tight, like a weight belt, to keep your rig from moving during the dive.
While at the surface, weights holding the BC down on my shoulders is what allows me to forgo the use of a crotch strap.
After 40 years of teaching and sport diving I still have a deep baritone voice. HaHa.
---------- Post added April 19th, 2012 at 09:41 AM ----------
If you dive with a weight belt please put in on last, not first. And when back on the boat take it off first, not last.
How exactly would you expect the weight belt to release in your senario?
The integrated weights on the Express Tech are designed to counter the inflated bladders lift and stop the BC from riding up while at the surface. But the tighter you pull on the single run of webbing in the standard harness the more up your armpits the rig goes, unless you put stips on the straps.
A Tarpon city employee fell overboard while walking on deck wearing a weight belt a while back and it cost him his life.
The release buckle being front and center with a right hand release is wonderful in theory.
(I missed replying with the quote to ER Doc, sorry for the confusion)
Last edited:
USFpsychDiver
Contributor
I dive an ET with the zip-touch weight system and a 2" crotch strap. I've put XS Scuba trim pockets on the shoulder straps and put 1 lb in each (they ride just behind my shoulder blades); helps keep me horizontal and doesn't add any roll. Mine came with shoulder and back pads but I took the shoulder pads off. I'm very happy with it now, but it did take a fair amount of adjusting to get it right where I wanted it. The advantage is that I can adjust it just the way I want it; the disadvantage is that it took me a fair amount of fiddling with it to get it just the way I want it. For someone who wanted a 'plug-and-go' system that might not fit just perfectly, it may not be the best choice. For someone willing to adjust, dive, adjust, dive, adjust, and have something that's just right, it's a very nice option. I use mine for my travel and single-tank open-water diving, then have a steel BP/W for doubles.
jimthediver
Contributor
I bought the zip-touch weight system with my ET. It's a nice system but I decided that since, , I only use 6-10 pounds depending on suit for tropical rec diving, I didn't need that much weight capacity. I replaced it with an XS Scuba trim pocket on my lower camband and two XS Scuba quick release weight pockets on my waist straps. I keep the pockets where I want them on the belt with my waist D-ring on the left and a weight keeper on the right, works perfect, don't even know they are there. On my last dive trip I experimented with and without a crotch strap. I decided with was better. I use a 2'' which I got with my ET from Zeagle Express. You can make your own, but be sure to use the thinner, softer webbing! You can buy the Zeagle shoulder pads which are easy to put on and take off without unthreading the webbing from the backplate. They are very comfy and a definate plus if you are doing shore diving where you are carrying your tank on your back for any distance. You really don't need them if you are just boat diving with any exposure protection.....but they are comfy! I second the recomendation for Capt. Gene & Zeagle Express!
OP
ScubaERDoc
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Thanks for all the information.
Decided on the 2" crotch strap and Zip-touch which I've ordered from Capt. Gene. Probably won't need that amount of weight capacity as with a 3mm in the tropics I usually need 8 lbs, but will be nice to have my system bolted to the plate and not hanging from the webbing, especially since I love getting in and out of my BC while in the water already
Decided on the 2" crotch strap and Zip-touch which I've ordered from Capt. Gene. Probably won't need that amount of weight capacity as with a 3mm in the tropics I usually need 8 lbs, but will be nice to have my system bolted to the plate and not hanging from the webbing, especially since I love getting in and out of my BC while in the water already
Queequeg
Contributor
We have a Zeagle Wicked Lite in our LDS. What I dont like about it is the 32lb bladder; seems overkill for tropical diving. The ET has a standard 24lb wing and its modular. I have a bp/w for my cold water diving and use the ET for travel. I love the simplicity of it and that I can customize it. I'm not a fan of integrated weight systems/pockets....as I've tried a few and never really liked any of them. I like keeping the ET harness clean, all I have is a D-ring for clipping my octo and a D-ring on the waist if I need it. I use a Mako rubber weight belt with their "pinch" weights, it is very comfortable and immediatley made me ditch all my integrated weight pockets I have. For trim, I put a two lb weight on the upper cam band.
Slmason.72
Contributor
While I am still new to diving, I have done quite a bit of research and read quite a few opinions regarding the gear I purchased. When it comes to the BCD - BP/W argument, the underwater community divides itself worse than democrats and republicans, with the BP/W community continually restating their somewhat valid points until the whole discussion becomes off putting. The statement you made above regarding cost is one that I can find no basis for, unless you plan to use off-brand and minimalist products. Seems to me, by the time you buy the individual components and assemble a decent BP/W setup, you are in the same price point as a comparable BCD.
Im not knocking the BP/W community, but from a researcher / reader's point of view, they do themselves a disservice by their energetic advocacy of their chosen equipment.
Seraphimx
Contributor
Please read the OP's post. BP/W was one of his choices.
What did you expect would happen?
------------------------------------------
When a diveshop owner gets a newly certified diver. They are in luck. Because they can usually sell them anything with 2 key concepts.
1) Scuba is a life threatening sport, don't gamble with your life.
2) You MIGHT need it later on, I'd take it just in case.
Too many features on BCDs:
1) Pockets upon pockets. I've found them to bee such a pain underwater that I've never used them. I prefer shorts with pockets in them. Highland Neoprene Pocket Shorts - Dive Gear Express
2) Lift. BCD usually have too much lift. Too much lift can be harder with newer divers that have a hard time with buoyancy. Some standard BCDs come with 47# for a single tank...danger much?
My single tank wing is 27# and my doubles 80s is 40# , it can still lift me at the surface.
3) Octo Pockets.... use an snorkel holder @ 2$.
4) Knife Sheats....no comment
5) Sternum straps, personally I never liked them. They are also in the way of Drysuit inflator, I dive cold water.
6) Weight integration. I don't like it. But TRY BEFORE YOU BUY.
7) D-Rings, sometimes there can be too many D-rings.
All these fall into the YOU MIGHT NEED IT SOMEDAY category, all these feature might not be what you NEED or WANT, but people selling these usually steer you towards the most expensive/ more features.
A) It's a safe bet. People who don't know what they want might feel more comfortable knowing they have EVERYTHING.
B) Profit margin is better.
PRICE:
When dive shop sell BCD's at 25-30% under the MSRP and sell them in the dozens... it means the MSRP is high. In the scuba industry a lot of things are over-priced and I mainly point out things that I've seen.
Manufacturing cost of the BP in SS316 Marine grade. Costs around 10$/pound in material only. So Material + Handling of the BP only is 75$-100$
On the other hand, How much do you think it costs to manufacture these BCDs in China? 100$?
Comparison: A 1st&2nd stage combo VS a BCD, both cost around the same 500-600$ range but the BCD doesn't have the same ammount put into: Manufacturing, R&D, Material, etc.
Why does it cost so much then?
After all these facts, can you really think that a BCD is not overpriced? (yes some BP/W are included in this OVERPRICED)
Long Term Cost:
Systems that use a wing are usually MODULAR. So if you try integrated weights and don't like it. You just remove & resell them. In a conventional BCD, you don't like it...well... you need a whole new BCD.
It might not be cheaper upfront, but in the long run, it is.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I usually tell new Divers is not "GO BP/W".
I tell them to TRY BEFORE THEY BUY.
If they can't, because not everyone has the ability to, I tell them BUY USED. You can resell it at almost at the same price if you don't like it.
I bought a used Oceanic Excursion BCD after my 5th dive at 200$ here on SB. It still smelled like new used it for my 15 first dives, change for a transpac, sold it back at 160$.
Why spend over 600$ on something you MIGHT not like & that you MIGHT change along the way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did I ever say in this and my other post how good the BP/W was. I pointed out WHY I DID NOT LIKE MOST TRADITIONAL BCDs.
I've never said that BP/W was the ONLY way to go or encouraged the OP to go that route.
I stipulated, why I like one of his two choices.
Thank you
What did you expect would happen?
------------------------------------------
When a diveshop owner gets a newly certified diver. They are in luck. Because they can usually sell them anything with 2 key concepts.
1) Scuba is a life threatening sport, don't gamble with your life.
2) You MIGHT need it later on, I'd take it just in case.
Too many features on BCDs:
1) Pockets upon pockets. I've found them to bee such a pain underwater that I've never used them. I prefer shorts with pockets in them. Highland Neoprene Pocket Shorts - Dive Gear Express
2) Lift. BCD usually have too much lift. Too much lift can be harder with newer divers that have a hard time with buoyancy. Some standard BCDs come with 47# for a single tank...danger much?
My single tank wing is 27# and my doubles 80s is 40# , it can still lift me at the surface.
3) Octo Pockets.... use an snorkel holder @ 2$.
4) Knife Sheats....no comment
5) Sternum straps, personally I never liked them. They are also in the way of Drysuit inflator, I dive cold water.
6) Weight integration. I don't like it. But TRY BEFORE YOU BUY.
7) D-Rings, sometimes there can be too many D-rings.
All these fall into the YOU MIGHT NEED IT SOMEDAY category, all these feature might not be what you NEED or WANT, but people selling these usually steer you towards the most expensive/ more features.
A) It's a safe bet. People who don't know what they want might feel more comfortable knowing they have EVERYTHING.
B) Profit margin is better.
PRICE:
When dive shop sell BCD's at 25-30% under the MSRP and sell them in the dozens... it means the MSRP is high. In the scuba industry a lot of things are over-priced and I mainly point out things that I've seen.
Manufacturing cost of the BP in SS316 Marine grade. Costs around 10$/pound in material only. So Material + Handling of the BP only is 75$-100$
On the other hand, How much do you think it costs to manufacture these BCDs in China? 100$?
Comparison: A 1st&2nd stage combo VS a BCD, both cost around the same 500-600$ range but the BCD doesn't have the same ammount put into: Manufacturing, R&D, Material, etc.
Why does it cost so much then?
After all these facts, can you really think that a BCD is not overpriced? (yes some BP/W are included in this OVERPRICED)
Long Term Cost:
Systems that use a wing are usually MODULAR. So if you try integrated weights and don't like it. You just remove & resell them. In a conventional BCD, you don't like it...well... you need a whole new BCD.
It might not be cheaper upfront, but in the long run, it is.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I usually tell new Divers is not "GO BP/W".
I tell them to TRY BEFORE THEY BUY.
If they can't, because not everyone has the ability to, I tell them BUY USED. You can resell it at almost at the same price if you don't like it.
I bought a used Oceanic Excursion BCD after my 5th dive at 200$ here on SB. It still smelled like new used it for my 15 first dives, change for a transpac, sold it back at 160$.
Why spend over 600$ on something you MIGHT not like & that you MIGHT change along the way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did I ever say in this and my other post how good the BP/W was. I pointed out WHY I DID NOT LIKE MOST TRADITIONAL BCDs.
I've never said that BP/W was the ONLY way to go or encouraged the OP to go that route.
I stipulated, why I like one of his two choices.
Thank you
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