Seven foot hose for single cylinder
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"So I had to buy all new equipment", :shocked2: 
Lobzilla
Contributor
Let me just add a couple of points about the underlying philosophy that the long hose is part of.
The OP asked in the spirit of whether a long hose is appropriate or necessary in a single tank sport environment.
My notion is: ESPECIALLY in the single tank sport/rec environment if you believe that redundancy and sufficient team resources is a good thing. Most people in sport/rec diving are lulled in to a false sense of security by the assumed possibility of a CESA. To me, this concept is largely wishful thinking and somewhat of an oxymoron. If you have the skills to pull off the 'C' (Controlled) part of the CESA than you should have the skills to manage most if not all of the 'E's (Emergency) in other ways.
The long hose is a tool to manage an OOG situation. With the long hose you carry a functional and easily deployable 'backup parachute' for your buddy. I literally treat this hose as if I am packing the parachute of a close friend. If he/she does the same and both of you have the skills to use this tool and the foresight in gas-planning to hopefully never need this skill, then you have vastly improved your odds to manage an unforseen emergency.
Just putting a longer hose on your reg is not going to be enough. Once you understand why the hose is there and what purpose it serves, the question of the length will answer itself. If I would dive with BlueSparkle who is using a 5' hose because of her short torso lenght, then we should discuss whether we are both comfortable swimming 2 feet closer to each other in an emergency. If we are both fine with this, the 5' hose is OK. If only one of the team members lacks the skills to do a gas-share swim and controlled, timed ascent on the 5 footer we have a no-go situation. Unless, we decide to go solo diving together and have the equipment and training to safely do so.
To put the length into perspective, keep in mind how the hose is routed during an open water gas-sharing swim. It either goes under the chest of the donor or over and around the head of the recipient - depending on whether you are donating to your right or left. So, your shoulder to shoulder distance is significantly shorter than the hose length.
Coming back to the question of whether a long hose is appropriate for single tank, recreational diving, look at scene below and contemplate how much redundancy we have built in there. 6 sets of regulators and mountains of backgas for 3 people. 3 long hoses and the close formation to effectively use these tools when needed. Is this overkill for a 60' reef bimble? Absolutely, but it surely adds a nice comfort cushion. But there will be other places where this as tight as being on a single tank and a little too far away from your buddy. The point is to understand the specific situation you are in and manage the associated risk properly. The gear choices are just a consequence of that.
The OP asked in the spirit of whether a long hose is appropriate or necessary in a single tank sport environment.
My notion is: ESPECIALLY in the single tank sport/rec environment if you believe that redundancy and sufficient team resources is a good thing. Most people in sport/rec diving are lulled in to a false sense of security by the assumed possibility of a CESA. To me, this concept is largely wishful thinking and somewhat of an oxymoron. If you have the skills to pull off the 'C' (Controlled) part of the CESA than you should have the skills to manage most if not all of the 'E's (Emergency) in other ways.
The long hose is a tool to manage an OOG situation. With the long hose you carry a functional and easily deployable 'backup parachute' for your buddy. I literally treat this hose as if I am packing the parachute of a close friend. If he/she does the same and both of you have the skills to use this tool and the foresight in gas-planning to hopefully never need this skill, then you have vastly improved your odds to manage an unforseen emergency.
Just putting a longer hose on your reg is not going to be enough. Once you understand why the hose is there and what purpose it serves, the question of the length will answer itself. If I would dive with BlueSparkle who is using a 5' hose because of her short torso lenght, then we should discuss whether we are both comfortable swimming 2 feet closer to each other in an emergency. If we are both fine with this, the 5' hose is OK. If only one of the team members lacks the skills to do a gas-share swim and controlled, timed ascent on the 5 footer we have a no-go situation. Unless, we decide to go solo diving together and have the equipment and training to safely do so.
To put the length into perspective, keep in mind how the hose is routed during an open water gas-sharing swim. It either goes under the chest of the donor or over and around the head of the recipient - depending on whether you are donating to your right or left. So, your shoulder to shoulder distance is significantly shorter than the hose length.
Coming back to the question of whether a long hose is appropriate for single tank, recreational diving, look at scene below and contemplate how much redundancy we have built in there. 6 sets of regulators and mountains of backgas for 3 people. 3 long hoses and the close formation to effectively use these tools when needed. Is this overkill for a 60' reef bimble? Absolutely, but it surely adds a nice comfort cushion. But there will be other places where this as tight as being on a single tank and a little too far away from your buddy. The point is to understand the specific situation you are in and manage the associated risk properly. The gear choices are just a consequence of that.
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Lobzilla
Contributor
I measured my hoses and the short hose on the singles rig is 22". This was suggested by a very experienced instructor and works well for me. YMMV, but 22"-24" should put you in the ballpark.
My short hose on doubles is 27" but that is definitively a trial and error thing due to the variables in regulator configuration and hose routing.
Blue Sparkle
Contributor
Just to clarify (and not to take away from your point about discussing kit and procedures before the dive), I'm not using the 5' vs. 7' just because I have a short torso. Rather, I had understood it to be an acceptable/typical length for a "long" hose in OW diving. It doesn't route down under a can light or into my waistband like a 7' hose would.
This is not to say that I would not use a 7' house for OW diving. I bought the 5' house to try out when the "standard" hose configuration was proving to be uncomfortable, and I do like the 5' house/routing much better. I also think the air-share options seem good.
One note is that for me, currently, a knee problem is making it so that upon return to the boat, I doff my kit in the water and hand it up to the DM on the boat. Although I do clip the primary second stage off to a D-ring for the hand-up, there is still a fair "loop" present to dangle around during that move. In that case I'm glad it's not two feet longer (but, granted, that's a special case).
At any rate, I digress
I really just wanted to say that I chose the 5' hose after reading that it was an acceptable (and even "normal") "long" hose length for OW diving. I have only done air-sharing drills with my dive buddy (no "real" ones), and for that it has seemed really nice; but then we are comparing to when we do them the opposite way, and I'm using my buddy's "standard" octo, which is considerably shorter.Blue Sparkle
PS: I will say that on my last trip, we switched hoses and my buddy used my 5' hose plus bungied backup (22"). He's not exactly weedy, and the 5' hose was too short for him, as was the 22" backup. It worked, but would be too cramped for regular use. I think if he were to want to use an "OW length" long hose it would need to be 6' -- and maybe a "long long" hose would need to be more than 7'? I guess that would have to be ascertained through trial.
I was reminded why I switched away from the "standard" set up: Not only was the primary reg constantly being pushed over to the left side of my mouth, but the primary hose "U" loop out to my right side was alternately banging into my buddy or getting caught in openings (wreck). If not using a "long" hose, I've also seen some photos of people routing a shorter primary hose down under their arm and then up, with a swivel at the end to avoid the "U." But that is a different setup of course.
Lobzilla
Contributor
Just to clarify (and not to take away from your point about discussing kit and procedures before the dive), I'm not using the 5' vs. 7' just because I have a short torso. Rather, I had understood it to be an acceptable/typical length for a "long" hose in OW diving. It doesn't route down under a can light or into my waistband like a 7' hose would.
This is not to say that I would not use a 7' house for OW diving. I bought the 5' house to try out when the "standard" hose configuration was proving to be uncomfortable, and I do like the 5' house/routing much better. I also think the air-share options seem good.
One note is that for me, currently, a knee problem is making it so that upon return to the boat, I doff my kit in the water and hand it up to the DM on the boat. Although I do clip the primary second stage off to a D-ring for the hand-up, there is still a fair "loop" present to dangle around during that move. In that case I'm glad it's not two feet longer (but, granted, that's a special case).
At any rate, I digress
Blue Sparkle
PS: I will say that on my last trip, we switched hoses and my buddy used my 5' hose plus bungied backup (22"). He's not exactly weedy, and the 5' hose was too short for him, as was the 22" backup. It worked, but would be too cramped for regular use. I think if he were to want to use an "OW length" long hose it would need to be 6' -- and maybe a "long long" hose would need to be more than 7'? I guess that would have to be ascertained through trial.
I was reminded why I switched away from the "standard" set up: Not only was the primary reg constantly being pushed over to the left side of my mouth, but the primary hose "U" loop out to my right side was alternately banging into my buddy or getting caught in openings (wreck). If not using a "long" hose, I've also seen some photos of people routing a shorter primary hose down under their arm and then up, with a swivel at the end to avoid the "U." But that is a different setup of course.
Sorry to infer the reasons for the 5' hose from an earlier thread about your freedom plate where you mentioned your built.
The 7' hose can be cumbersome for petite folks. But the long hose is not really there for the diver carrying it; it is there for the team. If the team is OK with 5' then 5' is enough. It is a tool to do a job - providing gas and range of motion to a teammate.
You brought up a good point and the most irritating thing about a long hose (of any length). Does anyone have some good suggestions of what to do with this 'snake on the loose' when you are not wearing your rig?
dadediver
Contributor
Lobzilla
Contributor
No, I only pack for myself. But IF a friend (or stranger) would ask me to do it for them I would be extra careful.
I rather die through my own negligence than live with the thought that I just negligently killed or hurt someone else. Of course, the best outcome is that everyone lives and that's why we should understand and manage risk properly.
The long hose is there for that 'someone else'. That's why it needs to come out fast, be long enough, not have any unnecessary failure points, etc.
There are not-so-obvious things to check. I recently donated gas to an instructor as part of a drill. He took the reg back out of his mouth in disgust and turned the mouthpiece around. I did not realize that some people will gag if the comfort-bite mouthpiece is turned the other way around. Today, it is a little less comfortable for me but much safer for a stressed-out OOG diver. That's the point.
Blue Sparkle
Contributor
No worries; I have mentioned that a few times in BC threads
That said, I would not expect a 7' hose to be particularly cumbersome for me if I were to tuck it onto my waistband or under a can light. I mean sure, maybe a slightly shorter one would be a good "custom" length, but the main reason I chose the 5' was that I understood it to be the "equivalent" long-hose setup for open water diving.
I do see that there could be times a 7' would still be more comfortable - and I may very well switch at some point - but I guess the main idea is that in open water you are not going to *have* to go single file. You can spread out a tiny bit width-wise and then have room to still have one person more-or-less ahead/behind/above/below the other.
Again, I'm not arguing your point about team or buddy agreement on equipment and procedures though (see if you ever use me for an example again
)Blue Sparkle
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Well, that way if I have to (or choose to) share air with someone, I have more options.
For example, the person I do most of my tropical dive trips with uses her air faster than I do. We both like to take pictures. So on those dives when we want to squeeze every minute we can out of the dive, at some point I'll hand off my primary and she'll breathe off my tank for about 10 minutes. With a 7-foot hose, we can swim side-by-side comfortably, continue our normal practice of taking turns photographing whatever we find, and do so with some level of comfort.
On our Indonesia trip in 2008 we probably did this on 20 of our 54 dives ... which added between 3-4 hours of bottom time overall to our trip.
I did have to remember to mention to the dive guide that we were going to do this, so they didn't think it was some sort of emergency ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
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