Another Frog Kick question

Scuba_Jenny · May 7, 2009

I am self taught using the frog kick. I do a modified kick mostly where the legs are not 100 percent vertical and it works good for me for 90% of my diving. But it got me to thinking that I should work on a "true frog kick." Problem is that my kness start to hurt after a few minutes. It feels like I am twisting my knee when doing the kick. Is this normal, or better yet, what should I be doing to make it right?

Cave Bum · May 7, 2009

Find what works for you. This isn't a dance contest where your going to be judged for style. The purpose of the frog kick is to direct the force ANYWHERE except down into the silt. Are you meeting that objective? If so your 'modified' frog kick is all you need!

AbyssalPlains · May 7, 2009

Frog kicking is harder on your knees, at least that is what I can tell from observing myself and watching others do it. Ergonomically speaking, the flutter kick is much better, but if you are in an environment that is not conducive to the flutter kick, it is better to reverse to the frog kick. It's about picking the lesser of two evils.

Scuba_Jenny · May 7, 2009

Thanks. I understand that it's not a dance contest. However, when learning a new task, I prefer to learn to do it right instead of trying to correct a bad habit later on. My main concern is the hurting knees. I prefer the modified kick and it serves me quite well.

MauiScubaSteve · May 7, 2009

the proper finning styles in many fins hurt some people; just because it hurts does not mean your doing it wrong, it just may not be for you.

Firefyter · May 7, 2009

AbyssalPlains:
Frog kicking is harder on your knees, at least that is what I can tell from observing myself and watching others do it. Ergonomically speaking, the flutter kick is much better, but if you are in an environment that is not conducive to the flutter kick, it is better to reverse to the frog kick. It's about picking the lesser of two evils.

Not necessarily so. My knees hurt something terrible doing a flutter kick, but no pain at all doing a frog kick. YMMV.

Scuba_Jenny · May 7, 2009

Ok, so I am not alone with the hurting knees. I guess this is good news for me, bad news for the knees.

I thought the knee problem was an indication of doing the kick wrong...

DA Aquamaster · May 7, 2009

When I first started frog kicking it was hard to do it for an entire dive. Now that is not an issue. Over time you'll develop the right muscles and that should eliminate much of the strain.

As for it hurting due to style, I'd sacrifice style and "perfect" form for comfort any day. 2000 ft back in a cave no one is going to grade you on style and what counts is just not disturbing the silt or contacting the cave walls - but having issues exiting because you hurt IS an issue for you and your team.

I think one follows the other. My Intro Instructor commented that I had a great kick, even thoigh I had never had any formal instruction - I just did what both worked and felt right for years - so in a sense form will follow function.

Scuba_Jenny · May 7, 2009

I feel so much better asking the question and the responses I've gotten are much appreciated. I have learned that if it hurts, it doesn't mean I am doing the kick wrong, just that it may not be the best kick for me. My modified frog kicks have served me well for a long time and maybe that is the best kick for me.
Thanks all!

DaleC · May 7, 2009

Just to add (though it seems you have it covered). Ask your buddy to trail behind you on a dive and observe the effect of your kick. Silt? Try hovering off the deck and see if you can travel in a straight (depth wise) line. Perhaps your knee is hurting because you are trying to hard (too rigid). I found that as I "got" it I relaxed and improved on the kick/glide cycles.

I am also self taught and found it awkward at first, then I seem to have "turned the corner" to where it is second nature, same with helicopter turns. Now my big challenge is the backwards frog kick. If I'm not trimmed right I go up instead of back and even with the right trim I can only go back a few kicks before it all falls apart. I may actually need some instruction for this one.

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